Whats the current value of German WW II 7.92 ammo ? Various loadings. Aluminum core, high pressure proof, observation.etc… Just a basic idea…
That’s a very broad question that is difficult to answer in a general sense. Some is under $1 some is over $1k. Which specific loadings/headstamps were you inquiring about? It makes a big difference. In general, from collector to collector:
l.S. - $3/round
l.S. l’Spur - $3 to $5/round
SmK - $3/round
-v - $5/round
Trop - $5/round
Beschuss - $10/round
B-Patrone - $20/round up (depends)
L’Spur - $3/round (depends)
L’Spur -v - $5/round
L’Spur -v trop - $50/round +/- (depends)
s.S. - $1/round
S.m.E. - $0.75/round
Platz - $3/round
Nahpatrone - $100/round up
Experimental - $200 to $1,000+
Bulk purchases will be less depending, condition changes the price as well. It also really depends on the headstamp. A P67 s.S. would be upwards of $75 to $100 and not $1. Also there are headstamp flaws that are desirable that would add to the price. Not a simple answer, but the above list is a starting point for you. -Ger
It would be a dream to find a P67 with an sS bullet. Unfortunately there is only one SmK Lsp round known from 1930 with two styles of head stamps. -:)
On the other way the prices in Europe are a little different as in the US.
For example, the price of $0,75 for a SmE I have some problems.
There are collectors in Europe who are very pleased to pay 300 Euro’s ($350US) for a SmE cartridge with a “SMI” or “pae” head stamp.
If you mentioned $10/round for a Beschuss, it is the price for the round with the lacquered steel case. If it has a brass or CWS case we speak in other dimensions.
The same with the Nahpatrone. With sS bullet you are right. With a SmE bullet $500+
I hope to make our fellow collectors clear that there is no standard price for a particular round.
As you wrote, Not a simple answer, a starting point.
Thanks all info is appreciated…
Many years ago I worked for Navy Arms in NJ .And at one point there we got hundreds of thousands of these,I dont from where. I accumulated my own collection of all types ,including a box of steel cased B-Patrone,Box of Glimmspur.Sadly I sold the whole collection for cheap.
Recently I just acquired some more from the estate of a fellow employee.And it sparked my interest again .
My mistake on the P67. You are correct about it being a l’spur. I cannot attest for European prices; however, under $1 US for a run of the mill SmE is not unusual. As we have both noted it is very dependent on what it actually is. -Ger
Steel cased B-patronen, especially a full matching box, would be very valuable. Much more than $20/round. A tough round to find. -Ger
I write this letter with trepidation because i will most likely make an ass of myself I have a small collection of
8mm but what I would call a little bit selected.However after reading al this advice and in some cases new
info I need to know something??? How do you recognize sS bullets from SmE or Smk bullets by vision
I have the book by Brandt,Hamann Windisch and tried to get somewhere by measuring this things but
somehow that does not pan out the measurements are to inprecise to get anywhere.By example I own a
Nahpatrone how could I find out by looking at that sucker if this thing is plucked with an SmE bullet???
or how would I ever be able to determine if my old first War loadings might be stuffed with an sS bullet??
can you help with some info here Sherryl
Sherryl, don’t panic.
For some reason I cannot find my copy Brandt/Hamann/Windisch, but I am quite sure they clearly state:
sS - green primer annulus
SmK - red primer annulus (3 x 120 headstamp in WW1)
SmE - blue primer annulus
In case you are referring to bullets outside the case, sS ist 35.3 mm long. But you cannot tell SmK from SmE in this case, as both are 37.3 mm long and weigh 11.55 g. If you know a friendly dentist, he could X-ray them. SmE cores are cold formed, having a very blunt tip. SmK are turned on a lathe and have a sharp point. If the jacket is zinc coated (dark grey today) this would indicate a late war SmE.
While I believe, WW1 sS have a cupronickel jacket, this and your question regarding SmE Nahpatrone refers to very exotic variations and can only really be answered by experts like Dutch.
Sherryl, to see if you have an sS or an SmE the easiest is to weight the cartridge.
The weight of an sS cartridge is 400+ grains. The SmE weights about 390 grains.
In 1940 SmE bullets were loaded but they often used the sS green annulus colour on the case.
One model PmK also exist with a red annulus like the SmK and sometimes the black tracer tip is almost or completely invisible.
To identify the round without pulling the bullet, you need a scale.
About Nahpatrone, only a few lots exist made by “cg” 1, 21, 23, and 25th lot of 1943
Nahpatrone with a SmE bullet by “eej” case lot 8 from 1942 and 14 of 1944.
Now you are informed about the existing lots.
About your concern about WW1 loads the same story as by sS and SmE. The weight between a “S” and “sS”is an other. Also the shape of the bullet is a little different.
A little help could be that cases from Munitionsfabrik Cassel “C” and Niebecker & Schumacher “N&S” were used to make WW1 sS rounds (green annulus)
If you have some problems to identify a round, here in the forum you will be helped.
A Nahpatrone sS has a green primer annulus and a Nahpatrone SmE has a blue one. Nahpatrone loadings use the same primer annulus convention as the non-nahpatron. -Ger
Sorry JPeelen, a small correction to the SmK 120° head stamp.
I think you referring to the Spr cartridge.
The early SmK had a “K” (Kern) or “K67” in the head stamp. Just as the early WW1 SmK tracers.
Thanks for the reply sometime I am such a fool I should have mentioned that more or less I was referring to
loads that more or less lost their Ringfugen colours of course you are both right on all German stuff it is
these colours that determine (DAS GESCHOSS) bullet the weighing is something that has always escaped
me but perhaps I should start considering it.For instant i have in front of me a Dachau load copper washed
cased SE 7 18 the Ring color is gone what is it without a book? another the same only this time 4 18 D Dresden
or Danzig.And a late one auy 41 14 S* However I was wrong they always should be identifiable be their
Ringcolor if still visible.thanks to both of you
Sherryl, all the mentioned cartridges should have a black annulus colour.
The first two because these are “S” rounds. The last one because it is a B-Patrone.
Thanks for those pics this is very interesting I took a good glass and could detect enough black in that
ring the bottom shown in that pic is a 100% copy of the one I have however the bullet does not show
any residue of black from a B Patrone however it does show some type of rust? coming out of the bullet
jacket there also seems some black around the case mouth I only probe those things with my fingernail
I do not want to use other means.Was that particular round than produced as a B Patrone and with an
sS bullet at the same time under the same lot number.? The precise matching of those 2 bottoms is sure
uncanny only in yours I think a little more black is left in the Ringfuge.
Thank you for the correction, Dutch.
“auy” was a plant who produced only brass cased cartridges for the air force, PmK and B- Patronen in 1941.
It could be your lot 14 round is a until now unknown PmK lot.
Could you please weight the cartridge?
Reading all of the above and knowing German obsession with documenting EVERYTHING, I tried to picture a Waffenamt office responsible for stocks of rifle ammunition and them conversing about how to tell all these different types of loads. And those guys were NOT collectors actually interested in ammo. Must have been a lot of fun.
Frankly, my head is spinning trying to remember all these combinations of annulus, projectile and headstamp markings.
During the day I will send you 2 pics for your perusal and the weight of that cartridge,on the one i only
like to find out if it is DRESDEN OR DANZIG? On the other one I know you want to make sure no one
diddled that bullet I am pretty sure no one did the one pic is not very good but if you look close you can
see some of the rust scab.And there is definetely a black residue left around the case mouth.Sending
this stuff is always problematic for me
The Königlich Arsenal Danzig is known they made M71, M71/84 cartridges.
The last lot of this round was made in December 1888.
Danzig did not made any 7,9 cartridges.
So I have a few 7.92x57 that I could use clarification on:
Headstamps are as follows, left to right:
avu S* 2 42 (slightly black annulus)
dnf S* 6 42 (red annulus)
dnf S* 7 42 (red annulus)
Am I correct in thinking the avu cartridge is a P.m.K.-v.-Trop?
How about the dnf’s being S.m.K. L’Spur-v.?