7.92 "bxn"


#1

Got some Egyptian shootin’ ammo today with a few Czech rounds mixed in. The Czech rounds have a CNCS bullet, LS case with a zinc(?) primer, 3 stake crimps, and a black annulus. The headstamp is: bxn - + 7 51. I’m not familiar with this headstamp style on 7.92. Is there any scarcity or significance to this stuff before I shoot it up?
I’ll try to post a pic later.


#2

Fairly common stuff. Found in both ball and blank - blanks in purple or red bullets and very much like the German PP33.


#3

The only significance is that it is probably the FIRST year of the use of the Czech letter code “bxn” by S&B, and also their first production of Steel cases since World War Two ( of this latter matter I am uncertain, but have NOT seen or heard of any Steel cased Czech ammo for 46-49/50 at all.)

Maybe somebody can cast some light on this.

The HS is still a mix of the pre 1951 brass “symbol” type and the new bxn code. This was when the CSSR had changed from supplying Israel ( 1946-49) to supplying the Arab states (1950-51 onwards.) with ammo and equipment (change in the Politics of the Czech Communist Party and their Moscow masters.).

Regards,
Doc AV
AV Ballistics.


#4

DocAV

I have a couple of Czech Vz47 rounds from 1950 with lacquered steel cases. They are the earliest Czech post-war steel cases I have in my collection. Maybe John Moss has some earlier ones.

The earlest bxn steel case headstamp I have is bxn - + 1 51. Blank with purple wood bullet.


#5

Thanks guys. I guess I’ll save a couple and throw the rest down-range.


#6

Seems that at least one 7.92x57 was earlier than 1950.
Head stamp:
SB - + 1 47 (with wooden blank projectile)


#7

I know we are talking about post-war rounds, but for the record, my earliest Czech 7.9 with steel case is from “JR” (Roth) and from 1928.

Regarding “bxn”, lot 1 of 1951 was not the first use of the “bxn” headstamp on steel cases. The use of “bxn” overlaps the previous use of symbols for the factory designator, and the earliest I have in my collection is headstamped “bxn + 6 50.” It is a red-bulleted machine gun blank. Note that the “dash” symbol for a single flash hole is not on the headstamp. I also have “bxn - + 10 50” in a purple bullet rifle blank.

The headstamps with symbols on them in steel cases are found at least as late as 1952. I have the headstamp “(four circles forming a cross) - + 3 52” on both a red-bullet blank and on a grenade launching cartridge.

The “SB - + 1 47” is the earliest post-war Sellier & Bellot round in steel case of which I am aware. However, the Brno factory (later Povzske Strojarne) used the “Z” headstamp on ball rounds in steel cases. I have “19 Z 46 V” and “19 Z 46 VIII” with CNCS bullets, and “19 Z 46 IV”, the earliest, with a GMCS bullet.

Like Sellier & Bellot, “Z” made steel cases before WWII as well, and both SB and Z made rounds, using a German headstamp style but with those factory designators, during WWII, primarily for Sweden. They might have possibly supplied them elsewhere, but Swedish use is well documented by a wall chart I have, as well as Swedish-language box labels, while I have seen no documentation other than anecdotal for other use of these rounds from WWII.


#8

Two more 7,92x57 post war steel case earlies:

SB - * 1 46 blank (like EOD’s)
Z 46 VI 46 ball iron core CNCS

And also a 7,92x33

SB - 1 46 ball


#9

Oh, you are right, I forgot the 7.92x33.


#10

There is also a 7.9 x 33 post-war 7.92 x 33 that I am told is Czech, with no headstamp and a blackened primer. Mine is NPE case only.

Hans - can you please confirm your heastamp SB 46 VI 46? It “should” be, if it follows the pattern, 19 SB 46 VI with a “19” instead of the second “46.” Please let us know if I am correct, or if it is as you initially showed it.


#11

John

I didn


#12

I also forgot about the SB


#13

John

I recently received a photo of a J. Roth 7.9mm with steel case from Dutch. The headstamp is 19 / JR / 28 / XI /. Is that the same as your round or is yours different?


#14

Posted this picture before.

Don’t think it from 1943.
Some clandestine export after WW2 ?

Rgds,
Dutch


#15

Phil - I did not intend my answer to be to your posting. It was primarily to Doc Av, who had mentioned what he thought was correct, but admitted that he wasn’t sure. It was mostly to provide him with additional information for his files, on earlier and perhaps later uses of various headstamps than he had known about.

Dutch - I have that sam odd PS round. It came out of Viet Nam with a companion round identical in every way, except the headstamp (even the headstamp letters were a bit different, surprisingly, since the two cartridges were so identical. The other one had a faux Romanian headstamp of PA. I suspect both were either made in Czechoslovakia or Belgium. I had both, but the much rarer “PA” headstamp is not in the Woodin Lab Collection, where it belongs. If I can find a picture of it, I will have Joe post it, but I don’t know that I ever scanned it.


#16

Dutch - sorry, I never scanned the faux PA headstamp. It was the same sort of format as the SB round you pictured. I should have scanned it for my files before it left, but didn’t think of it.


#17

When it comes to the associated tinware the earliest incarnations I have of ‘BXN’ are from 1952. Everything before then seems to have been marked with symbols.

Here’s one for 7,62x45;

And here’s one for 7,62x25

Has anyone ever seen a post 1945 Czech charger for 7,92x57 with a makers code on it other than a symbol? The latest I have is marked ‘O 51’.

Happy collecting, Peter


#18

John, you are right! The second 46 in my headstamp of course is one too many. Depending on where we start from clockwise it is SB 46 VI 19

:-)