7,92 German/Kynoch?


#1

Some time ago on a different site I posted a question titled 7.9x57 mauser it was about if Kynoch supplied parts for Germany between the wars. Now I bought this round at the Deepdale show, It was live and a friend inerted the bullet for me, as each bullet was made inert it went into its own bag and sealed. Now that I have some time to work on my collection I noticed that the stamp on the base of the bullet has a K on it. To me it looks like the same K that Kynoch uses. If this is so, then Kynoch was supplying bullets, Dutch posted some answers on the other site, I wonder if he or anyone else has come across this mark…thanks…paul.


#2

I think that is german year code:


#3

The idea the K represents the year 1934 is an interesting one, but there are many of these bullets without any basemark at all. I do have one with “M” on it and that’s also one of the code dates, so perhaps there is something to this. In the case of my bullet “M” could designate production by Spandau late in WW.I with a soft lead core. Any other markings seen on German-made sS bullets? Jack


#4

first Guys, thanks… Jack, I have a few some with a Gothic M and a Monogram of what looks like O+S I was going to photo them all but as I had some "me time " I returned the bullets to the cases. if I get some time later I will pull them again and post some pics. I would like to know that the monogram one is. …


#5

My reference book shows the OS monogram to be Sprengstoffewerke Oberschlesien Silesia,used on commercial and military prior to 1918,used codes acc and ola 1938-1945…Pete.


#6

Paul: I’m never sure what “Gothic” means. In the base marks used on German military SAA during the first war the marks are found as conventional Latin capitals or as Fraktur capitals. As I understand it, when the ratio of alloying metals (antimony and tin, I think) were reduced in 7.9 m/m bullets the base mark changed from its original form to its opposite one; that is, if the base mark was Fraktur, it became Latin, and, if Latin, it became Fraktur.

The sS bullet I was speaking of has a conventional capital Latin M. If this bullet is actually of German WW.I production the capital Latin M should indicate late Spandau production. As AveDanzig has pointed out, it could signify 1927 production by an unspecified maker. The O plus S should, of course, be of Great War production. Jack

p.s. in quick check of the Wikipedia I see we have a hard time even knowing what “Latin alphabet” means, but I mean the definition that fits the keyboard of most computers in the U.S. or typewriters from the same locale.


#7

Jack, there was no flip-flop approach. If I remember correctly, it started with Latin (Antiqua) letters. When softer lead had to be used, this was indicated by switching to Fraktur (Gothic). In any case, there was no random use of Latin/Fraktur by the manufacturers in the beginning. All used the same type of font.

Sorry, I cannot be more specific. It is high time to reorganize my archive, because I actually have a contemporary list somewhere (courtesy Joachim Görtz) but cannot locate it at the moment.


#8

Gents… thanks… I am away for the rest of the week but when I get back I will take some photos, and post the bullet stamps which I have. … Paul.


#9

JPeelen: The comments I made yesterday about basemarks on German 7.9 m/m bullets were based on Dieter Storz’s book on the Gew.98 and Kar.98a rifles, and he cited material in, as I understand it, the Bavarian state archives as his source. That said, Storz’s book deals only with the 7.9 m/m S cartridge, not the sS, and I forgot that limitation in his information.

He does show that at least ten producers of 7.9 m/m bullets made bullets with and, later, without antimony as an alloying agent in the lead. Five of these ten were using Latin letters early in the war, the rest Fraktur. When the antimony was dropped, the bullet marks were changed from Latin to Fraktur, or Fraktur to Latin. There was actually a visible physical difference, if a subtle one, in that the jacket of the S bullet without antimony wrapped somewhat farther around the base of the bullet to provide stiffening lost when the core became softer.

But, alas, Storz didn’t address this question with respect to the sS bullet. Jack


#10

Jack, you are correct. Storz indeed lists the flip-flop type of marking you originally mentioned.
Obviously, my recollection of the manufacturer’s list is wrong. Sorry. Thank you for pointing to this source.


#11

I do not think this is a „Reichsheer“ year code.

Here an example of sS bullets with the characters P, X and U.

Rgds
Dutch


#12

So Dutch, thanks for the input, what do you think it is? regards…paul.


#13

After spending many hours pulling bullets I have found one more with a K as a bullet base mark. The headstamp is
P131 S* 20 34 So I wonder if they have been used from lot 1 to lot 20, and beyond? and does anyone with any bullets between 1 and 20 have the same s.S base marks?..paul.