7.92 Mauser Ammo - Collectible? Worth anything?


#1

When I got the Western .38Spl Super-Match, I also got a bunch of 7.92 ammo. A lot of it is prewar, like DMW 1937. 22 5 round strippers all total. The rds on the strippers are reasonably clean, mostly just a dull patina. Perhaps 5-10 of them have a bit of corrosion like you see in the picture, far right stripper in the second row, second cartridge from the left.

Also a full plain cardboard box of 44 rds of bright, shiny ammo marked 7.92 MM 42. From searching this board I think this is supposed to be ammo made in Canada during the war to give to partisan groups fighting the Germans.

Anyway, I would appreciate any info on whether this stuff is collectible and what it might be worth. There’s 153 rds total.

Here’s a scan of headstamps and a picture of the strippers and box. I apologize for the scan quality but I am completely new at this. Any tips on a better scan appreciated.

Here is the actual ammo with the box of 7.92 MM 42 in the middle.


8mm Headstamp ID help
#2

The ammunition in the box, with the “7.92 MM XX” (XX = date as stamped on headstamp),
is Canadian, but was not made during WWII. This clandestine contract for the CIA has been
discussed before on this Forum. I would suggest that if, in the dates, you change the first
digit “4” to “5”, you will have the era in which it was actually made.

I can’t read a lot of your German headstamps, but all look common. However, that is NOT to
say they are not collectible. All cartridges are collectible, including those coming off a major
manufacturing line right now, for those that collect that caliber. The 7.9 x 57 is widely collected
by basic headstamp, and even by some by every single date and lot number. However, the value in cash or trade of those I can read is moderate.

For the most part, the Canadian ammo is "shooting stuff.: It is good for that, though, since it is non-corrosive. Not the best 7.9 x 57 ammo ever made, but plenty safe to shoot and moderately accurate. Not bad stuff.

For the quanity you have of German rounds, and the mixutre of headstamps thereof, I would put it all in your collector trade stock.

Just my opinion.

John Moss


#3

Here is a related topic
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=7825&p=54975&hilit=cia#p54975


#4

Vlad,

Thanks for posting Jon’s recap of that thread. I couldn’t think of it off hand, even though
Lew Curtis and I contributed to it.

John Moss


#5

Most of those cartridges are surplus from the Spanish civil war. There’s even a spanish round from Palencia.


#6

Thanks for all the replies! This has been really interesting.

As I’ve mentioned, I’m not a collector. My shooting bench is full, so these cartridges are going to have to move on.

Since you guys are in this field, can you suggest the best way to sell them?

I know not to clean them. Should I sort them by headstamp and sell those sorted groups? Or should I make up groups that have as close to one of each as possible and sell them like that? I can obviously just sell the lot of them also. Which would be the preferred method to collectors?

Also, any thoughts on posting the sale here versus the sale on Gunbroker? What would be the best online resource for selling these cartridges?

Thanks again!


#7

Toad–In order to post them for sale here you need to use the B/S/T part of the Forum. To post on that part you need to be an IAA member, which I assume you are not. Any post in this thread where you state a price or that looks like a for sale post, will be deleted. A general discussion, as it has so far been, is OK.


#8

Toad, you can post them on almost any gun/firearm forum. I’ll send you a PM with some examples.


#9

Before we move on from this topic there are several headstamps that I certainly can’t identify if somebody could help please?
‘PCH 38’
'4-37 7.92M/M’
CH * 7.92’
Also, although I can’t quite make it out, I don’t recognise the headstamp of the 6th round, top row. It looks like ‘F * 193’ but can anybody fill in the gaps and ID it?


#10

[quote=“Jim”]Before we move on from this topic there are several headstamps that I certainly can’t identify if somebody could help please?
‘PCH 38’
'4-37 7.92M/M’
CH * 7.92’
Also, although I can’t quite make it out, I don’t recognise the headstamp of the 6th round, top row. It looks like ‘F * 193’ but can anybody fill in the gaps and ID it?[/quote]

PCH = Poudreries et Cartoucheries Helleniques. This was the way the germans referred to this greek factory.

4-37 7,92M/M. Unknown but probably greek manufacture for Spain in 1937. A similar hstp exists in 7 mm.

  • CH * 7,92 = Probably german for Spain, although the font looks like austrian. CH = 37.

The sixth round is spanish, from the Fábrica Nacional de Palencia. This was early production with machinery taken out of the Toledo plant. Headstamp is * F N P * 1938 most probably.

All that ammo obviously made in germany but with arcane headstamps was made probably for the republican side during the spanish civil war, and sold thru the PCH factory. The nazi government supported Franco’s side, and the ammo they sent to this side during the war bore standard headstamps (german military or DWM). There was no reason to disguise the headstamps for the nationalist side, but as Germany also sold guns and ammo to the enemy, sterile headstamps had to be used in that case.


#11

@ Schneider

PCH is not Greek.

We think it is a German head stamp for Spain, probably made by Köpp Treuenbritzen


#12

Technically, there was an international arms embargo placed on both sides of the conflict, so any arms or ammo sent to either side, at least early in the conflict, is liable to have a confidential or clandestine headstamp.


#13

[quote=“Jim”]Before we move on from this topic there are several headstamps that I certainly can’t identify if somebody could help please?
‘PCH 38’
'4-37 7.92M/M’
CH * 7.92’
Also, although I can’t quite make it out, I don’t recognise the headstamp of the 6th round, top row. It looks like ‘F * 193’ but can anybody fill in the gaps and ID it?[/quote]

CH with the 5 point stars was made for Spain by Hirtenberger. The CH exists in 5 different formats/variations made for Spain by 5 different Makers.Unsure why CH was used.


#14

[quote=“dutch”]@ Schneider

PCH is not Greek.

We think it is a German head stamp for Spain, probably made by Köpp Treuenbritzen[/quote]

The name of the company is Elleniki Eteria Piritopiiou ke Kalikopiiou; the EEK headstamp is well known. In german documents, the factory was named Poudreries et Cartoucheries Helleniques. In british documents, Greek Powder and Cartridge Company.

This greek company sold millions of cartridges to the republican side during the spanish civil war. The factory was set up using german machinery and know how. They are known to have imported large quantities of german small arms empty cartridge cases.

Franco complained to the germans after finding german guns and ammo in republican hands during the war (Krupp and Rheinmetall-Borsig mainly) but Göring refused the charges.

In march 1938 Wehrwirtschaft in Oberkommando der Wehrmacht asked Rheinmetall-Borsig to reply to rumours that the firm was participating indirectly in arms deliveries to the Republicans. The spanish nationalist ambassador to Germany told Göring that the Greek Ministries of War and of Marine as well as the Greek Powder and Cartridge Co. were re-exporting German war material and ammunition to the Republicans. Wehrwirtschaft ordered Rheinmetall-Borsig to investigate the case in strict confidence and inform no other authorities on the results. One of the allegations was that Bodosakis (the Greek company owner) had delivered 70,000 rifles to the Republicans. (Mogens Pelt, Tobacco, Arms and Politics, Greece and Germany from World Crisis to World War 1929-41, Museum Tusculanum Press, University of Copenhagen, 1998)

I think the PCH ammo came from Greece, although maybe the cases or even the loaded cartridges may have been made in Germany and sent to Greece to cover their track.


#15

Any hypothesis about the X A X 37 headstamp, number 2 in the last row? These also showed up in Spain during the civil war.


#16

Jeez, I’m not even a collector and the info you guys are putting out is very interesting!

Got more than I bargained for in this thread, for certain.


#17

Schneider, as far as I’m aware X A X 37 is DWM Berlin Borsigwalde…I think.


#18

Schneider - Your information on the Greek factory is very good and glad it was posted. However, the PCH and CH headstamps are not, as Dutch said, Greek. They vary in country by the style of the headstamp. However, at least one of CH, * CH *, PCH and * PCH * are, again as Dutch said, from Kopp, Treuenbritzen in Germany.

The headstamp used on Greek ammunition during the Spanish Civil War was “I38A 7.9” and has been found mixed in boxes of ammunition with normal Greek headstamp, for the Greek Army, also from 1938. The rounds are found with both CNCS and GMCS bullets.

A x 37 x is a product of Detusche Waffen- und Munitionsfabriken, Berlin Borsigwalde. Thos headstamps with “AI” as the factory designator are also from DWM, but from the Lübeck-Schlutup factory.

John Moss


#19

Were the rounds headstamped “P C H 39” also made in Germany? The UK bought alot of that ammunition from Greece for trials of the British made Besa tank machine guns of Czech design.


#20

Is there any documentary evidence that German made small arms ammunition was delivered from Germany to any Spanish recipients other than the Nationalists? Many years ago I did considerable research on German involvement, economic and military, in the Spanish Civil War and found no evidence of German support for the Republican government in Madrid. Jack