7,92 mm PP88 or not on bickel's ammunition auction


#1

I saw on the part 6, a german 7,92 mm mauser blank Mle88, the bullet seem’s to be a PP33! What do you thinks guys?


#2

What is the auction No?


#3

It’s in part 6, number 310


#4

nobody is interested??!!


#5

If someone was interested in that round, I don’t think they would say so here ;)


#6

The question was : “Is it an original Mle88 ball or a PP33!”


#7

Ah…sorry.


#8

still nobody???


#9

someone can give it a try???


#10

I have not had luck manipulating Bickel’s auction site. If Laurant or someo ne will post a direct link - where one press of the key on the link will bring up the cartridge in question - I will take a whack at it. I do not want to be bothered to sign into anything, or so on. I don’t do auctions and the process for looking at some of these sites is tedious, in the extreme. I don’t know about Armin’s, as have had little luck finding anything on it. I get about two items on the first page of any category, and that’s it.


#11

Yes John you first most sign in for looking op the page’s but the auction is also closed…

regards
gyrojet

from the auction site:nr 310

Beschreibung:
Platzpatrone 88 von Hauptlaboratorium Ingolstadt. Mit einer glatten Rille zur leichteren Unterscheidung zur scharfen Patrone.
Bst. / Hst.: J 7 9 5


#12

Hello, thank you very much gyrojet to post the item, I don’t know how to do! :-(
Like that, I’m sure john will be able to give us an answer!
Have a nice evning!
regards
Laurent


#13

Well, that made things easy. It is a standard Model 88 rifle blank. If the bullet were blue, it would be a machingun blank. The Model 88 Platzpatrone is about the same OAL as the PP33, but the bullet ogive is much more rounded. The PP33 has a more pointed bullet, although not pointed enough in my opinion to reach the description of even “spire point.” If you hold the two together, the difference cannot be mistaken. The knurled ring on the case indicates the case has been reloaded.

The case was made at Ingolstadt July 1895. However, that in no way is reflective of when, where and by who the cartridge was reloaded into a PP88. That could only be discerned if the box label were present.

In short, this is quite a normal cartridge, and precised as Armin described it.
I would have been surprised if he had not described it correctly. He is quite well-versed in this caliber of German ammunition.


#14

John, about the case, for sure it’s a platzpatrone, I’m wondering about the bullet, I believed that the PP88 bullet did’t have a shoulder to prevent it going into the case, but the PP33 had it.
What do you think?


#15

This cartridge is sold for 43,50 euro thats $58,- at the auction.


#16

John,

I don`t think that this round is a reloaded one because this case has a smooth ring and not a knurled one.
The smooth ring was in the early cases the different between a loaded cartridge and a blank
The germans started reloading used cases after 1895 and these where marked with a knurled ring.

Laurent,

To my opinion the bullet is a model 1891 and belong to this case.

451kr.


#17

[quote=“451kr”]John,

I don`t think that this round is a reloaded one because this case has a smooth ring and not a knurled one.
The smooth ring was in the early cases the different between a loaded cartridge and a blank
The germans started reloading used cases after 1895 and these where marked with a knurled ring.

Laurent,

To my opinion the bullet is a model 1891 and belong to this case.

451kr.[/quote]

Thank you, after looking better to thee bullet, she seem’s a little different than the PP33, I didn’t know that the Mle1891 bullet had a shoulder! I had bullets from WWI for gewehr and MG and the bullets hadn’t the shoulder, is somebody know why they stop doing it before the PP33?


#18

This is just to illustrate some examples of the variations in the Platzpatrone M88/M91 bullets. These variations are noted in


#19

Laurent - I have many of these in my own collection, both the purple and the blue, and the all have the shoulder at the case mouth. Some are not so clearly definied as the one pictured, and they are not as uniformily clearly defined as are the shoulders on the PP33, but they are there. The ogive on that bullet ells me it is a Patrone PP88 (Frankly, I wasn’t even aware that the separate projectile has a “91” designation.

451 - I don’t understand at all your explanation of smooth versus kunrled cannelure. Frankly, I had not noticed it was smooth - my eyesight is poor.
I have no idea what a smooth cannelure means as opposed to a knurled cannelure. I guess this is all new information that is coming out these days. Since I have not actively collected 7.9 for about six years, I have not purchased the new books, nor done any further in-depth study, as I am in the process of breaking up the collection and selling it. So, some of this newly found information I am very, very ignorant of. This is the first time I recall seeing the “91” year-model given for the projectile, and I have never seen an explanation of the occasionally found smooth cannelures, so I cannot make comment on it, except to honestly say I don’t know.


#20

John

The recent book