7.92 x 33mm


#1

I just opened this box and have a few questions.
The box has a over label, which is the one towards the top.
The clips and cartridges look like the have never seen the light of day.
one clip is stamped 5E/40, another P32739 (looks parkerized)and two hrc 44.
10 rounds headstamped aux 34 44 st
7 rds aux 30 44 st
1 rd aux 33 44 st
1 rd aux 29 44 st
1 rd aux 24 44 st
box has a impressed stamp fbf 1944 - box manufacturer?
What do the 2 labels say. Translation to english. Is it unusual to have different lost numbers in the same 20 rd. box?
Thanks,
Bob R.


#2

Top Label Red Overstamp: “In Clips”

“20 Pistol Cartridges. Model 43 with Iron (steel) Core”

" 1944 Polte Lot 71"

" Nitrocellulose Tubular Powder" ( 1mm x 0,8 OD x 0,2 ID) 1944 rdf (maker) lot 9, Charge 1,57 grams (24,225 grains).

Cartridge case (Steel) 1944 Polte Bullet 1944 Polte

Primer: Model 30/40 ( noncorrosive) 1944 eem Lot.193

Older label

“In Clips” (red overstamp)

1944 Polte Lot 9

Nz RP (xxxxx) 1942 rdf Lot 9, 1,58 grams [ heavier load), older powder.]

Cartridge case (Steel) “Jahrg. xxx. Versuch” (? Year? Research-- “Trials” cases?)

Bullets 1944 Polte Lot 70

Primer 30/40 (non corr) faa lot 271.

Key to German Abbreviations:

Pist.Patr. Pistolen Patrone ( the 7,9x33 cartridge was initially named a “pistol” cartridge to disguise its function, not so much from the Russians, but from Hitler.

Nz R P Nitrozellulosen Rorhren Pulver (NC Tubular Powder, single base);
Powder was described by dimensions and shape, and occasionally usage.

Zdh : Zundhutchen (primer) Models 30 and 30/40 were noncorrosive compositions, and the cups were steel or zinc plated steel.

The Factory codes ( faa, eem,aux,fbf) are from the long list of German wartime factory codes, (1940-45)

Polte was the designer, developer and major supplier of 7,9 PP 43mE ammo during WW II, so the use of trial run cases, (as per label) and the Possibility that this packet has been re-used a couple of times, should also be taken into account ( given the mixed nature of the ammo in it.)

The clips are also recycled ( a 1940, a 1939, and two 44s) so this is basically a mid to end 1944 production (given the late Lot number on the top label)…check Kent or Windisch for the Lotting analysis of PP43 ammo), when all resources were being used.

So I would say this packet was already into its third filling (maybe even early 1945) without a third top Label, given that the ammo was 1944 Polte anyway.

Magdeburg, being west of Berlin, only fell after Berlin in April/May 45, and was probably still producing when occupied…Actually, I think the US Army occupied it first… and afterwards handed it over to the Russians ( The British managed to get a lot of the Paper documentation from Polte before this hand over, as did the Americans)…the Polte Docs were eventually returned to the BundesArchiv in the late 1980s (at Koblenz), mostly unresearched.

Interesting Packet which shows the chaos of the last year of the War.

Regards,
Doc AV
AV Ballistics.


#3

And here’s a nice modern reproduction gun to go with that ammo. It is made in Germany for JLD Enterprises in the U.S. to sell as part of their PTR line. I guess if you have to have a new semi-auto one, it’s the only way to go. For the bargain price of $6,000.00

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=189391062

Hard to believe really, even after all the fuss of being built in Germany, exported, imported, and all else, it shouldn’t be more than $3,000 - It probably costs them $1000.00 to build.

Anyway, it sure beats paying $18,000 for an original: http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=189231398

Anybody know a Vet who has a bring-back rifle MP44?..


#4

Doc Av - Good translation of the two Kurz labels. One error. The “Versch.” in the case data on the one label does not stand for “versuch,” but rather for “verscheidene” indicating mixed or various lot numbers.

It is interesting that the overlabel representing a re-use of the box with a newer loading lot of ammunition does not indicate component lot numbers for the cases or bullets, probably indicating they were mixed as well. Only the loading lot number, the lot number of the powder, and the lot number of the primers is shown.

John Moss


#5

[quote=“JohnMoss”]Doc Av - Good translation of the two Kurz labels. One error. The “Versch.” in the case data on the one label does not stand for “versuch,” but rather for “verschiedene” indicating mixed or various lot numbers.

It is interesting that the overlabel representing a re-use of the box with a newer loading lot of ammunition does not indicate component lot numbers for the cases or bullets, probably indicating they were mixed as well. Only the loading lot number, the lot number of the powder, and the lot number of the primers is shown.

John Moss[/quote]

Yes John,

were also 1943 cases used in that box.

Rgds