7,92?


#1

Came across this ammo label on the internet.
Can anyone tells which cartridges belong to this label.

The label says:
7,92mm loaded penetrator cartridges for rifle - mg31
year?? Powder M24 Serie ??

451kr.


#2

With M24 Czechoslovakia comes to my mind.


#3

Could they be for the Gewehr M.31, making them 8x56R?


#4

If I recall right the 8x56R was never designated as a 7.92mm or?


#5

Possibly a German relabeling of a Czech ammo crate? Jack


#6

I say they are Czech 7.92 AP rounds re-labeled by the Germans.

Czech AP labels were black with white print, and were designated VZ.31.

The other thing in support of this is that the word “durch” in German is “through”, if I recall my high school German correctly. This would be synonymous with penetrate.

Sure would be great to have a box of that with the German labels on it!


#7

This is a label for czechoslovakian 7,9 x 57 mm M. 1931 armor piercing cartridges designated “7.92 mm ostrý průbojných náboj vz. 31” (7,92-P-31).

Pulver M. 24 refers to standard propellant designated “prach vz. 24”.


#8

Gents thanks for the information.

451kr.


#9

451kr – I just returned from the cartridge show in Reno and saw your picture. It’s interesting to me in that it is the first German label I’ve seen from a Czech 1200 round case. On 10 and 15 round boxes you can find this type label on most (if not all) the different Czech loadings… I don’t know what the proper term for the labels is but I guess you could call them a supplementary or auxiliary label.

Here is a picture of a 10-rnd box with both the German and Czech labels and a couple with just the Czech labels.

The black labels with white lettering are the Vz. 31 AP loading as has been pointed out.



#10

Phil,

Thanks for adding the pictures.
As always very nice quality.

451kr.


#11

Do the two holes through the charger signify Armour Piercing or anything at all?

gravelbelly


#12

gravelbelly - I really don’t know what purpose the holes serve. Both chargers in the box have them. I also have a couple loose chargers with the SB circled monogram that have the holes but none of the other Czech chargers that I have (including circled M, circled Z, Z) have them.


#13

Phil,

I have one somewhere that has the two holes and is marked with ‘Z in a circle’. All the others I’ve seem were marked ‘S&B’.

I’ve done my digging and this is the clip, all very ordinary save for the marking (very faint) of ‘Z’ within a circle. The thing looks to be original with no evidence of tampering to the platform.


Happy collecting, Peter


#14

I found these boxes (empty)


#15

gyrojet - nice pictures of nice boxes! Thanks for posting.


#16

The terms “scharfe” and “Muster” sound very Austrian, not German to me. About “Durchschlagpatrone” I’m not certain and cannot check in Mötz’ book.

Hans


#17

Hans, the answer is simple. The labels were translated by somebody not skilled in doing so repsectively he did not know German ammunition terminology.
So even Austrian will be no explanation here (and why should it?).
The common term for this amongst interpreters is “the interpreter’s false friend” means somebody takes word for word and translates it and then often gets something like this. Basically as in nowadays online translators - same results.
Hence the very correct term in English (in my opinion at least) is interpreter. Words have to be interpreted in their sense and not just translated.


#18

EOD is right on. When I ask foreign-language speaking friends to translate something for me, I urge them to read the material I send them, then set it down and tell me, just as if they were talking to me, not writing anything, what it means in context in English, not precisely what it SAYs in their own language. It works so much better. Of course, the interpreter must also have some idea of the subject. I had a Romanian neighbor, who left Romania in the 1930s, that could not translate a simple 7.9 mm package label, of about the same period as when he left there. The problem was, he explained, that they were not taught any technical language in early school - only in technical schools and only if it pertained to the subject of your study in those schools. He had no education in anything to do with ammunition, and could not, by his own words, carry on any kind of real conversation about the ins and outs of ammunition or even firearms. He knew only the most basic terms, like Pistol, Bullet, etc. In some wirtten languages, where the characters may stand for more than one thing (Chinese, Japanese, Korean and the like), someone not conversant with firearms may give impossible translations!


#19

[quote=“EOD”]Hans, the answer is simple. The labels were translated by somebody not skilled in doing so repsectively he did not know German ammunition terminology.
So even Austrian will be no explanation here (and why should it?)…[/quote]
EOD, you forgot that large parts of Czechoslovakia, especially Bohemia was bi-lingual until 1945 and was part of the k&k empire until the formation of that independent country after 1918 - an explanation for availability of personnel familiar with Austrian-German terms.
I cannot believe the translated labels were applied for Wehrmacht or SS purposes - the acceptance officer would have instisted on the right wording.
So for me the question can only be, were they relabelled for export - not many German speaking countries in this world - or for Bohemian (bi-lingual???) internal use after the occupation too place.

Hans


#20

Hans, I would agree with you if the German used on the labels would not be a 100% word by word translation of the Czech label.