7.92x30 FN Subsonic


#1

hello

does anybody know a story and a weapon behind this round?

thanks


#2

hello
i seen the same question on my forum
finally it a “montage” with a unfinish 9x19 blank a a bullet of 7.92 kurz not a experimental round


#3

There are other “subsonic” rounds made from unfinished + 9mm FNB 90 cases but with a very short neck and measuring 7 x 32, 7,62 x 32 and 7,62 x 33. I don’t know what the collectors think today, but these were not considered fakes on its time. Maybe this is J-P Denise’s work?


#4

Max & Fede - I have seen similar fakes done with REM-UMC and R-P - headstamped, NUPE extended 9 mm cases made for the production of movie blanks, etc. I have never seen ANY form of doumentation that would indicate these were more than various peoples’ fantasy.


#5

Well, in fact I got this dummy from Jean-Paul, but it was only one of many nice things he gave me on our last meeting, so I just forgot to ask him about this particular item. Our conversations mostly centered on early 5,7mm developments, but now I think i shall email him and ask for first-hand info…


#6

Beware!!!The round presented here IS A TOTAL FAKE!!! and I know too well from where it comes… having (alas) bought a couple, many years ago, in the 70ies… with or without bullet… and of course, never loaded nor documented.

I am sorry to say the worst problem with JP Denis activities is that he was usually offering a mix of some quite good items with terrible fakes, which he pretended to have “saved from destruction”, or any other stupidity of the kind, when found in the FN R&D facility where he was, at time, employed…(before being properly fired for reasons I do not wish to know…). Just ask Bill Woodin or some others…! His “activities” amidst the Ctg Collecting fraternity are the reason why he was expelled from ECRA.

I wish not to say anything more about a guy I have known for more than 40 years… (and, by the way, not unagreable at all as far as only chatting was considered), but I think he did a hard prejudice to many collectors, in Europe and overseas, just in order to make money for his own benefice.
I did not know he had been active as far as Russia!!! In this case, he should be no more taken as a living legend(!) but a true genius of Madoff fame… in his field !!!

In other words, what he has done should not be just considered as forgery, but as a matter of fact, swindle, or even worse, plain theft.

I will let other collegues to make up their mind differently, if they still wish to do, but, for me and most of us here, there nothing else to add.

Phil


#7

From my own knowledge, I must agree with Philippe. I was just too timid to name names. Exotic loads in NUPE R-P extended-neck cases for making blanks are just as phoney.


#8

I must also agree with Philippe & John

This guy is the KING of Fakes…

gyrojet


#9

[quote=“stuka222”]His “activities” amidst the Ctg Collecting fraternity are the reason why he was expelled from ECRA.
[/quote]

are you sure about that ?
I am asking because he present at the last ECRA meeting in Germany and if I remember
correctly, he told me he wanted to visit the meeting in Walenstadt as well.