7.92x33 ammo

I add my cartridge list:

I make a book about the development and production of the German Kurzpatrone 43 m.E.

If you have a cartridge missing in this list please send me a picture of the Hs and the case.

Thanks

Norbert

sent you a email…paul

Paul
the coulors in the list means:
blue : extractorring 60° - Ausziehernut 60°
black: extratorring 45° - Ausziehernut 45°
red: annulus red - rote Ringfuge
green: proof cartridge with green bottom - BeschuĂźpatrone mit grĂĽnem Boden
jellow: brass case with steel primer 30/40 - Messinghülse mit Zdh. 88 und Ausziehernut 60°

number with * brass primer 88 -MessingzĂĽndhĂĽtchen 88
number with ° bullet cupro-nickel -Geschoß nickel-plattiert nur bei dou. und aux
number with ° brass primer and bullet c-n -Messingzündhütchen und geschoß c-n
number with " primer with three points -ZĂĽndhĂĽtchen verstemmt (Nachbesserung)
number with W tool cartridge - Werkzeugpatrone galvanisch verkupfert
number with St ** in jellow brass case ,steel primer
hla S
1 45 brass case with steel primer

Norbert Berg

Norbert - your English is so good, I just want to add a tiny correction to it.
“Steal” is as to take something from somebody without their permission. “Steel” is a strong form of metal.

Thanks for your postings. Keep them coming! That’s an impressive list of Kurzpatronen! Vielen dank!

[quote=“JohnMoss”]Norbert - your English is so good, I just want to add a tiny correction to it.
“Steal” is as to take something from somebody without their permission. “Steel” is a strong form of metal.

Thanks for your postings. Keep them coming! That’s an impressive list of Kurzpatronen! Vielen dank![/quote]

John,
vielen Dank for your help.

I hope some other collectors can also help me with pictures from new Hs or labels (boxes-Faltschachteln,battlepacks -PackhĂĽlse 88 or wooden crate-Patronenkasten) or information for my book.

Norbert Berg

Thanks for your postings. Keep them coming! That’s an impressive list of Kurzpatronen! Vielen dank![/quote]

John,
what is impressive?
1.the kind of list on only one page?
The list is in word.I will send it to everybody who wants to use it.You can change it for your own purpose.

2.my collection?

Norbert Berg

I have also the 7.92x33 Nahpatrone in my collection.The HS is only the X.The bullet is the normal one quite the reverse of the bullet for the proof cartridge that has no groove.

The powder of the Nahpatrone is a special one similar to the 08 powder 0,31 g (0.8x0.8 ).The powder of the 7.92x33 proof cartridge is also a special one 0,8 g (Nz.-Stb.P. n/A 0,8x0,8).

In comparison the 08 Nahpatrone with the HS X and its powder and the special bigger lead bullet.


Norbert Berg[/quote]

[quote=“8x33”]I have also the 7.92x33 Nahpatrone in my collection.The HS is only the X.The bullet is the normal one quite the reverse of the bullet for the proof cartridge ( green bottom) that has no groove.

The powder of the Nahpatrone is a special one similar to the 08 powder 0,31 g (0.8x0.8 ).The powder of the 7.92x33 proof cartridge is also a special one 0,8 g (Nz.-Stb.P. n/A 0,8x0,8).

Norbert Berg

Good morning Norbert, amazing!

Thanks for sharing
Hans

Thanks for sharing
Hans[/quote]

Hans can you say me something to the DDR 7.9 kurz with the red primer and the lead bullet and a special powder?

Do you have 7.92x33 boxes or cartridges .Please send me an E-Mail.

Norbert Berg

Norbert,

my belly says, this is nothing out of the original era for the following reasons:

  • bullet grove and ogive, as far as I can compare it on the screen, are very unusual for a DDR product.
  • the bullet will be in the area of 8 gram, so there is no reason not to use the standard steel core bullet for whatever purpose.

Just my thoughts, have a great spring day
Hans

I do like that way of cataloging the various types, Norbert -

I have to go through mine, I have doubled my collection since last update, and will add anything on my list that isn’t on yours, which is frankly unlikely.

Thanks for sharing your update.

JVJ

Norbert, Great thread!!! Even for a 9x19mm collector. I also like your listing and am wondering how I’d modify it for my P08s.

Norbert, Hans, Dutch, whoever! I am surprised and pleased to see that there are 7.9x33s with red primers. Does anyone have any idea of the meaning of these markings?

There are a number of 9x19mm documented from the WWII period with similar markings. Some have all red bases. There is also one with an all blue base and wa headstamp which, except for base color matches the wa red base round. One of the red base wa rounds also has a red bullet.

To keep from hijacking this thread, I have opened a new one on 9mmP08 with color marking that includes photos of known rounds (http://iaaforum.org/forum3/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=17229). I would appreciate any 9mm specific comments be posted there.

Cheers,
Lew

Norbert, Hans, Dutch, whoever! I am surprised and pleased to see that there are 7.9x33s with red primers. Does anyone have any idea of the meaning of these markings?

Cheers,
Lew[/quote]

Lew
I add two HS with red annulus.
aux 30 44 St and fva 2 44 St


The bullets are like the normal one.

Cheers,
Norbert Berg

Norbert,

Perhaps you must make an appointment with your dentist to make an x-ray.

It could be it looks inside like the cartridge on the right.

Rgds

StgLsp_zps01da1fd2

[

I hope some other collectors can also help me with pictures from new Hs or labels (boxes-Faltschachteln,battlepacks -PackhĂĽlse 88 or wooden crate-Patronenkasten) or information for my book.

Norbert Berg[/quote]

I add a picture with a B Luftdichter Patronenkasten 1943 aux 6 AnschuĂźpatronen

Norbert Berg

Thanks for posting. Considering the not too strict targeting requirements, it is surprising that Anschuss ammunition was actually produced in this calibre.

I am afraid we still do not know what the actual requirements were for ammunition to be designated as Anschuss quality, neither for 7.9 mm Kurz nor for the regular 7.9 mm rifle ammunition.

Am I correct in assuming that this Anschuss ammunition was unmarked, and out of the box looked like normal ball ammunition???

Cheers,
Lew

Yes, as far as I know, your assumption is correct.
Anschuss ammunition did not exceed a certain dispersion (for this reason 7.9 mm sS Anschuss was also issued to snipers) plus (!) its center of impact did not deviate from the center of impact of a reference lot more than a certain amount.
It was ordinary in every way, except during acceptance testing it showed to be significantly better than the average.

Anschuss ammunition must have existed in the interwar years, but was dropped (because there were orders to the troops saying that in future they had to take ammunition for Anschuss purposes from ordinary training ammunition). Then it was resurrected at some unknown point. HDv 481/1 from 1938 shows a triangular label “Nur für Anschuss”. But I know of no actual description of its properties.

Edit: For readers who never heard of Anschuss: it is a test firing at 100 m on a special target to check that the center of impact is within a given circle and dispersion also does not exceed a limit. Apart from acceptance test at the factory, it is done by soldiers specially selected. German military has no equivalent to what Americans know as zeroing by the man who carries the rifle. Sights have no provision for being adjusted, except by armourers.

[quote=“Lew”]Am I correct in assuming that this Anschuss ammunition was unmarked, and out of the box looked like normal ball ammunition???

Cheers,
Lew[/quote]

Lew your assumption is correct.

The AnschuĂź ammunition looks like normal ammo.
8x57 always with sS bullet;
The 8x57 boxes also have labels with the addition AnschuĂź,because these ammo was not only used by the gun factories.
I add some pictures AnschuĂźmunition.


7.92x33 has m.E. bullet.
The 7,92x33 boxes have no addition AnschuĂź.Only the wooden crates have the addition AnschuĂźmunition,perhaps also the PackhĂĽlse 88.
I add the crate 1943 aux 14.You can see the rest of the label AnschuĂźmunition.

The boxes have normal labels and cartridges.

[

The other crate Patronenkasten 900( grey painted) contains not as usual 1260 cartridges ( 3 PackhĂĽlsen with 420 cartridges) but 1500 cartridges. Without PackhĂĽlse 88 and only loose 100 boxes without anny labels with 15 cartriges.



That was not allowed for ammo for the normal troops.For the troops you have to pack the boxes in a Packhülse 88 and then in a wooden crate ( Patronenkasten 88, Luftdichter Patronenkasten ,B Luftdichter Patronenkasten.Patronenkasten 900 or if there are not one of the called crates availabel also fuze crates. With the exeption of the rule 2400 cartridges in the early B Luftdichter Patronenkasten 1941,1942 with the zink tray and the special wooden crate with the other dimension 45cm x 35,5cm x 20cm ( former used for the Sprengbüchse 24,Sprengkörper 28 ,Bohrpatrone 28) for 2850 ( 190 boxes with 15) cartriges.
The reason for the use without the PackhĂĽlse 88 was a packing problem with the PackhĂĽlse 88.The crate with the fixed zink tray often was to smale for the ammo packed in battlepacks.

Cheers
Norbert Berg
I am always looking for information for my book about the development and production of the 7.9 Kurzpatrone.My book has until now over 600 pages.Please send me pictures from your box labels.