7.92x33 blanks - warning - FAKES


#1

Hello guys,
please be aware of the fake wooden blanks of 7.92x33 with aux head stamp produced/distributed by two Czech collectors (names can provide via PM). To the public known as distributors on 8mm Rapid rounds (copies) and several other home-made, doubtful items. Shortly after I have shown on one of the Czech shooting forum the picture of my S&B (ak) blanks - both genuine, originals as they came from S&B archives - they have got the aux cases and started production of these German rounds. The left one holds the head stamp aux_7.9_42_2 or aux_7.9_42_3 (both live cartridges were sold by Dieter Kapell at German meeting - used as source of narrow grow cases); the right one has the aux_44_St_(different lots). See the picture below:

92x33_aux%20-%20fakes

92x33_aux_42_2%20HS

92x33_aux_42_3%20HS

If you look carefully - you can see the fresh crimping tool marks. (bullets are made based on the drawings shown in Dieter’s book. I have approached them that both their cartridges are fakes - for the few years they have stopped the distribution…recently I have met the guy who has spent quite huge money for their products…so still several rounds are “for sale”

For the comparison - two my original “ak” blanks (2 different boxes):

92x33%20Sturmgewehr%20Blanc

92x33%20Sturmgewehr%20Blanc%20(dark%20bullet)

92x33%20Sturmgewehr%20Blanc%20(lighter%20bullet)

Don’t pay for worthless stuff!


#2

Thanks for the warning about these but in your photographs I’m not sure which are fakes & which are real.

The top photo with the green background are the fakes? and they exist with the early aux headstamps?

As an aside in your 1st paragraph next to last sentence "used as source of narrow grow cases"
I think you have a typo in spelling “groove” as “grow”?


#3

The fakes are shown just on first picture - they have never posted head stamps on the web pages (info about the head stamp I have been told from lucky buyers). Second and third picture is the head stamp used on narrow groove case - coincidentally exactly the same as Dieter was selling standard FMJ rounds. These two pictures are taken from my collection - both CWS jackets.

They have made two types - as shown in the Dieter’s book - narrow groove (early aux head stamp) - longer bullet and standard groove (1944 aux head stamp) - shorter belted bullet.

Sorry - yes, typo error - groove shall be there

Originals are those two “ak” - last three pictures.


#4

I have this round with the same “ak” head stamp for decades in the collection.
It was for me impossible to tell if this round was made during WW2 or after.
You mentioned two boxes. Do they had a German or was it an after WW2 label.


#5

I spoke to the guy who provided me with my two cartridges and if he remember well they have been taken from boxes with German stickers - but we’re talking about times 40+ years ago. Several rounds were given to high ranked military guys who collected ammo as rare S&B souvenirs.
On the other hand he told me very interesting info regarding 22 Tokarev round - these cartridges were loaded between 1993-1995 for Rene Hanulik by S&B, division for reloading of obsolete calibers. He personally shot his Tokarev in 22 TT caliber…will meet him once he’s back from hospital to get more info. Hopefully soon…


#6

I’m no expert on these, but isn’t the blue primer annulus a clue of fakes?


#7

Excellent observation. The primer annulus laquer on blanks should be transparent, according to a Polte drawing.


#8

If a cartridge was ordered as a blank 33 it was normally made without any annulus colour.

By the 7,9 Mauser production of steel cases they had so many cases who were not in the specifications they loaded them or send them to plants for loading as blanks.

It could be possible this also happened by the 7,9x33.

From the files I have, the HWA (Wa Prüf 1/IIb) asked Polte on March 7th 1942 to make 1000 blank cartridges with a wooden bullet supplied by M.Böhme.
Böhme was sending 1200 bullets to Kummersdorf so they could find out the right powder charge. The next order to Polte was on June 1st for 5000 blanks to design 7,9-10a.
The difference between the first order (7,9G-11) was probably the bullet colour.
HWA asked for an uncoloured bullet for the trials to safe money.
In October 1942 one hundred blank cartridges were ordered with some internal changes (7,9P.10d).

Here stops my files.
As far I s can read were these rounds all for functioning trials.
I did not found any proof Polte produced cartridges for troop trials.

Rgds


#9

Another product of these dupers - looks like early version prior they have produced proper roll crimp die. Picture is posted at CZ ammunition pages www.naboje.org; as there are plenty of fakes displayed there I didn’t want to share my collection pictures…prefer Spanish municion.org.

92x33%20fake%20blanc%20HS


#10

Hi Dutch,

I have the same round as yours (ak - St 4 45 with red wood projectile) in my collection as well. Tough to tell for certain, but it appears to be authentic. -Ger


#11

Geramy, that is the problem.

Until now I have no proof “ak” made these blanks.

Also I don’t know for example if the high lot numbers with the “ak” head stamps of 1945, 9mm, 7,9 Mauser or 7,9 x 33 were made under German or Czech management.
There were a lot of components left after WW2 and I don’t think they were throwing away.

That’s why I was very pleased to hear the cartridges described by Trabi_Fun came out of a labelled German box. Perhaps he is able to get a picture of this box label.

Some fellow collectors wrote me what I mean with internal changes.
I hope the drawings makes it clear.
Rgds


#12

Original box labels would definitely help verify this. -Ger


#13

Info about the content of SB archives are dated pre 1989 - the friend of mine (source of my ak 7.92x33 blanks) used to work there between 70’s-90’s; his stay was finished by privatization. I can try to approach the current CEO of S&B but have doubts he’ll be helpful. Let’s see