7.92x33 Kurz "oxo" headstamp


#1

How common (or not) is “oxo” in 7.92x33 Kurz? Also, is there any correlation between a place of production (geographically) and rarity? In essence, would ammo made in Central Germany be more available because it was produced longer (occupied later)?


#2

Well, how do I put this? The code “oxo” is one of the scarcer of the common rounds. It is not a rarity, but is not found as often as some of the other headstamps.

I have found no correlation to the location of German ammunition plants and the scarcity of their ammunition, except, of course, that codes like “ch” cease to exist after Fabrique Nationale d’Armes de Guerre in Belgium was liberated, and similar examples. A lot has to do when they got their contracts, and some of it has to do with for how long, or whether or not, their factories survived a code change that took place in the latter part of 1944.

One thing I had theorized for a long time was not so much dealing with basic headstamps, but with lot numbers. That was that certain lots or groups of close lot numbers from certain makers went to places to which, following the war, cartridge enthusiasts had no access. The best example was a series of lot numbers in 7.9 x 57mm Mauser caliber from the factory using the P25 code (Metallwarenfabrik Treuenbritzen G.m.b.H., Werk Sebaldushof). There were several very large gaps in the known lot numbers for this code from 1940 production. These were series of twenty and thirty lot numbers in a row where no one had more than one or two rounds in their collections. Some years ago Navy Arms company imported from a Balkans country, probably Bulgaria but they would never reveal which one, a huge quanity of mixed 7.9 x 57. It was a country, though, that had been basically closed to the west since WWII. In that quantity of ammunition were most of the missing P25-code lot numbers. I added 80 lot numbers in one fell swoop from that importation. There are probably other examples as well that have never been filled in. It was nice to finally have one of my “dingbat” theories confirmed.

You probably know already, but “oxo” code, by the way, represents Teuto Metallwerke G.m.b.H., Osnabr


#3

The head stamp


#4

Dutch would know better than I on the scarcity of the oxo round. Of the couple of hundred 7.92 Kurz rounds that have gone through my hands over the last twenty years or so, only a few have been “oxo” code. I do know, though, that I have seen it in most collections. For me, when I decided finally that I wanted to put one round of each headstamp only (no lots and dates) as a sub-collection to my 7.9 x 57 collection, “oxo” was not the easiest to find by any means, but again, as I said in my last thread, not the hardest either. At one time, the “de” code was thought to be rare, but I have had more rounds of that over the years than those with the “oxo” code. Truthfully, though, I don’t not seek out any of the Kurz rounds. I have simply added them as they came into my hands in trades, etc. That may not be true in Europe or other parts of the country.


#5

Dutch - I was rereading your posting, and I thought, for our friends and fellow Forum Members who do not collect the 7.9 Kurz at all and perhaps don’t have information books or lists on the cartridge, that we should kind of complete the story of “oxo,” so that they don’t think lot 10 of 1944 was the last lot from this maker.

Although bombed in 1944, the factory restarted its production of this caliber ammunition (7.9 x 33mm Kurzpatrone), concluding according to most records with the headstamp "oxo-St 5 45 (case production lot 5 of 1945 - I don’t know what the highest loading lot number was). The dash on the headstamps for case lots 10-44, and all lots of 1945, indicates a single-flash hole Berdan primer pocket.

By number of the highest case lot number produced in this caliber in WWII, my records indicate it was by Polte, Werk Magdeburg, with headstamp “aux-St 14 45” (lot number 14 od 1945). this is from a list from 2004, so could be now superceded by a later find.


#6

The book of Kapell on the 8x33 may be of interest to people here.


#7

Try to make a list of the known 7.9 Kurz head stamps.
The lot number is were the “dots” are.

7.92 x 33 Kurz
Tomb. Platt. Zh 30/40

ak St … 44 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11,
ak


#8

What amazes me is the completeness of some runs of lot numbers. IOW for a given manufacturer you can find consecutive lot no’s. from 1 to x for a given year. The Germans must have spent a fortune on headstamp dies (but that’s beside the point).

Not knowing anything about the average size of a lot, I would have guessed that entire production runs would have been shipped off, to be shot up at the front or otherwise consumed. But this doesn’t seem to be the case. Little bits dribbled out here and there, and over the years ended up in the hands of collectors everywhere.


#9

What would actually happen if one were to shoot the above cartridges through this configuration? Would krummerlauf explode? I was told that only soft lead bullets could make the curve.


#10

The reason for the Lot number changes ( in German production) was that by the time the Lot was completed ( some 180,000-240,000 cartridges, depending on factory–Phil Sharpe’s 1944-45 Intelligence), the headstamp Bunter was Worn out. So a new one was made. A Lot of the time, HS Bunters were made of segments which could be replaced, so it was easier to make the individual components of a Four-sectioned Bunter, and then assemble them together in a Holder (Just like Modern Gunsmiths assemble standard letter and number Punches into a frame to make up a neat “calibre” or maker stamp for a gun or guns.)

The Germans were none but meticulous in their recording of ammo production and traceability of individual lots (just look at the Box labels…every detail of component origin is recorded, and can be traced quickly by thoses in the know of the codes.)

Regards, Doc AV
AV Ballistics.


#11

Dutch,
The 3rd line of your list, under ak, should be 45. Correct? And if you would, please explain primer 88, and the 30/40 meaning.
Thanks,
sam


#12

[quote=“sam”]Dutch,
The 3rd line of your list, under ak, should be 45. Correct? And if you would, please explain primer 88, and the 30/40 meaning.
Thanks,
sam[/quote]

Sam, The “ak” problem is fixed.

The primer 88 was made of brass. The primer 30/40 was made from zink plated iron.

Rgds,
Dutch.


#13

In addition to the German wartime production, I understand the 7.9x33 was also loaded by the East Germans, Spanish, Czechs and a South American Country after WWII. I have examples of the East German and Czech rounds. Can anybody post a picture of the Spanish and South American headstamps?


#14

Look at this link, go to “fuego central” on the left, “7.65 a 8mm”, find “7.92x33 Kurz”, you may need to scroll down. You’ll see German, Spanish and Argentine headstamps.
municion.org/


#15

sksvlad

Thanks for the link. I have visited that site often in their 7.9x57mm section. I didn’t think to look there for 7.9x33.

Phil


#16

I just bumped into a box of “oxo” and decided to post it here for no particular reason.


#17

Vlad - for those not into German ammunition, I think we must add that the box you show is not of the 7.9 x 33 Kurzpatrone, but rather for the full length 7.92 x 57, as the label tells us.

The headstamp shown is also 7.9 x 57m/m. That can be told free of the box label since the material code is “St+” (the improved web 7.9 x 57 case). The use of the “+” sign is not found on the Kurzpatrone, with the exception of one lot, I believe, with “dou” code, and that was possibly the mistaken use of a 7.9 x 57 bunter on a Kurz round.


#18

[quote=“JohnMoss”]
Although bombed in 1944, the factory restarted its production of this caliber ammunition (7.9 x 33mm Kurzpatrone), concluding according to most records with the headstamp "oxo-St 5 45 (case production lot 5 of 1945 - I don’t know what the highest loading lot number was). The dash on the headstamps for case lots 10-44, and all lots of 1945, indicates a single-flash hole Berdan primer pocket. [/quote]

Interesting…I have an “oxo-St 3 45” round in my collection.


#19

Just remembered I have oxo St 3 44


#20

[quote=“Dutch”]Try to make a list of the known 7.9 Kurz head stamps.
The lot number is were the “dots” are.

7.92 x 33 Kurz
Tomb. Platt. Zh 30/40

ak St … 44 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11,
ak