7.92x57 1938 ID, please!


Gentlemen, are you able to find for me this picture (from municion.org) in a better resolution?
I’ll be very gratefull!


No, but do you need a picture of one in particular?


Yes, thanks, I want to indentify this one:

Thanks again!


You have a standard SmK Lsp (hard core tracer) made by; Patronen, Zündh. .-und. Metallwarenfabrik A.G., vorm. Sellier & Bellot, Schönebeck/Elbe



dutch, thanks! Spitzgeshoss mit Kern L. spur - is this Armor Piercing-Tracer or just the “kern” is put there to save lead?


I already have this typed out so I’ll go ahead and add a little to Dutch’s post.

It is a S.m.K. L’spur (AP-T) round with the case made and loaded by Patronen- Zundhutchen- und Metallwarenfabrik GmbH, Schonebeck-a-d-Elbe; the case as the 74th lot of 1938 and the loading lot somewhere between 13 of 1938 and 10 of 1939.


I am Puzzled, I have seen the maker of primers “S.K.D.” on many labels, especially for ZdH 88 ( the original, mercuric and corrosive German primer); The other factories I recognise from their standard code lettering ( dnh. etc),
but who and where were “S.K.D”???

Thanks and regards,


BTW, the two “S&B” lables show that except for the Powder and Primers, the entire construction of the SmK l’spur was done “inhouse”
( “G’teile” and “satz” being the inner core assembly and trace element of the projectile)


S.K.D./eem after 1941 Selve-Kronbiegel Dornheim, Sommerda .JH


Many thanks for info, friends!
I’ll post some more Mausers later.



Doc: There were two threads a couple of months ago that touched on Selve Kronbiegel Dornheim (S.K.D.) and its relationship to Dreyse & Collenbusch that is a starting point for this complex story of arms-related manufacture in Soemmerda, Germany. A google search will turn up a good bit on this topic, tho much of it is in German. Jack


DocAV – While for the most part P69 used its own for loading ammo, cases and bullets from other factories were also used in some loading lots as you can see from these label examples.


L’Spur = Lichtspur (meaning light trail, or tracer). It also has a fairly small steel penetrator in the nose. I still have an unopened 300 round cardboard field pack of this ammunition (20 15-round packets). Mine are also Lichtspur Gelb (yellow tracer), as seen on the labels above. Back in the 1960’s this was very commonly seen on the gun show circuit, as well as from places like Ye Olde Hunter (Hunter’s Lodge), etc., but I haven’t seen any in a long time. I have fired many hundreds of rounds of it, and it was excellent quality and fairly accurate ammunition at close range. However, the tracing capabilities were inconsistent, and I’d say that in my night time firing of it back in the day, most of the time it did not trace, or at least I could not see a trace. I don’t know how it performed in armor penetration, but I remember it punched right through 1/4" cold-rolled steel plate.

I converted a lot of it for hunting use by pulling the APT bullets and replacing them with 8mm softpoint bullets, with no other change, and these shot very well. I think I still have some of these old “reloads” laying around somewhere. I had a nicely sporterized Model 98 at the time - One of the ones I wish I hadn’t sold, as it shot a very tight group.

I couldn’t understand why so much of this ammo seemed to be on the market at the time, as I would have guessed by its age, the Wehrmacht would have gone through all of it early on in WWII. Maybe it was never issued for some reason.


German military ammo is not my thing so forgive my ignorance. I’ve had this box for a while and this thread seem to be a good place to bring it up. I always assumed it’s a AP tracer. Anything else you can tell me about it? Is it worth anything?




Dennisk - I believe the proper German spelling of the word represented by “L’spur” is “Leuchtspur,” and not “Lichtspur.”