7.92x57-300rd & 9mm-832 rd Carton Labels


#1

For you 7.92 collectors, Here are a couple of 300rd carton labels I found laying around.

Cheers,

Lew


#2

Thanks Lew, great 300 round labels. JH


#3

Surprised there was not more interest in the 7.92mm cartons so I decided to add some P08 cartons and see if we can create a thread with more of these intersting carton labels. The three in my collection are illustrated below:




I know another P08 carton was pictured on the Forum, perhaps the author will repost it here.

Can someone translate the various labels (other than those which describe the ammunition) and explain the P. 132 label? Thanks!!!

Cheers,

Lew


#4

Here are a couple, the first one is a carton I have - just this lower-quality photo for the moment however:

And here is one that I found online somewhere, but I can’t recall where:


#5

[quote=“Lew”]

Can someone translate the various labels (other than those which describe the ammunition) and explain the P. 132 label? Thanks!!!

Cheers,

Lew[/quote]

restricted usage in 08 Pistol
(sporadic case jamming)


#6

Rolf F from Germany sent me some more 7.92 carton labels if anyone is interested.

He also sent me some 9mm cartons from asb and hla. If anyone is interested, send me an email and i will send you copies. I now have cartons or case label photos from ak, am, asb (a number of lots and years), dou, hla, kam, N and P151. If anyone has other case or carton 9mmP labels, please send me a copy.

Cheers,

Lew


#7

Have had a couple of requests for the 9mm Cartons and Crates and have had a forum member send me a couple of new ones, so I posted them all on my website.

At the home page, select buttons 9mm Para Info>9mm Ref Info>Data-Ger-WWI & WWII and you will see iboth the Cartons & Crates, and the Gauges listed.

Any help on either would be appreciated.

Cheers,
Lew


#8

Lew,

I have one complete Tragslaufe and three others that had no important labels or markings on the
body of the carton, so I simply removed the top of each one (with the cloth strap-handle) to
reduce the room they take up.

The are for the foolowing:

1944 ak 23 with the "Occasional case sticking label also and a diamond label with “sk” in the center.
1944 wa 20 with a case-sticking label as well.
1843 kam 11 with a case-sticking label
1942 dou. 38 with a “Shoot only in Machine Pistols” label.

If you need pictures of any of them, I will make them and send them to you, but it might be in a week or so. I can’t change my camera setup right now.

I had no “fb” 9mm rounds relevent to your other inquiry. Not collecting dates, it doesn’t surprise me.


#9

Thanks John. I’ll add them to the website.

Lew


#10

Lew,

Some other labels.





451kr.


#11

I don’t recall having previously seen the label on the 08SE 4160-round container (Zum baldigen Verbrauch bestimmt!) which seems to say the ammunition is intended for immediate use. Is its intent known? Jack


#12

questions for you guys

did the germans in ww2 make 9mm tracer rounds and if so does does anyone have a picture of the label or the round it self?


#13

I just posted on this subect at:

http://iaaforum.org/forum3/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=13223

These rounds were apparently all for Spain, but clearly could also have been made for the German military. I think I am pretty safe in asserting that there were no standard issue 9mm Para tracers used by the German Army. There have been 9mm tracer bullets pulled out of the lakes on the old DWM Lubeck range in north Germany. There is no way of telling whether these bullets date from the 1920s or WWII. I have a light weight Polte 9mm (P * 10 40 hst) with a red primer seal. When I got it the bullet had been pulled and the powder dumped. The bullet weighs 99.5gr. Before I recieved it, the bullet apparently had a thin copper foil seal over the base of the bullet. this had been lifted off carefully and the base of the bullet is filled with a yellow grainy substance filling the entire base of the bullet. The previous owner said he pulled it apart when he found it in some junk ammo. The primer has also been struck, but the case has not been fired. It was a pretty modest trade because the guy who found it made not claims about whether it was legit.

I also know of three DWM K (asb) loads with 1943 headstamps, one in my collection and all with different lots, that are reputed to be tracer/flare loads made experimentally for use by German Air Force pilots. This round has a GM color bullet and weighs 140gr overall, so it is not a normal weight bullet. That is all I know about these loads.

I can’t tell you that either of these loads is legit because I just do not know.

Cheers,
Lew


#14

cool
thanks for the info


#15

Here is another 9x19 832 rd case label I came across recently. The headstamp is: wa st+ 15 43


What is the label under this German P08 832 round label
#16

Looking at the very first post, the combination of “Anschuss” and “Für MG” is somewhat contradictory. It would be a very bad idea to waste most precious Anschuss-cartridges by firing in machine guns. This must be a kind of misprint, the “Für MG” should not be there, because due to the much larger allowed dispersion it would be meaningless to fire this ammunition in MGs.

Anschuss (literally zeroing) was not only checked for dispersion, but also the mean point of impact had to be within a given distance to a reference lot fired from the same rifle. Snipers, after completing their training course, were issued a number of Anschuss cartridges (200 or so) to take back to the front.

If anyone has documentation regarding what MPI distance from the reference lot was allowed, I am VERY interested to learn this figure.


#17

Peelen - could the answer to the Anschull/fur MG contradiction be that the “fur MG” is an overprinting of a label for Anschuss ammunition found to NOT be in specification for the type - that is, a down-graded lot?

Just a thought. Maybe not even possible due to German practices at the time of which I am not aware.


#18

Gentlemen, why do you think „Anschuß“ ammunition was not made for MG’s.

Also MG’s were adjusted before sending them to the troops.

By a degraded box is the word Anschuß was over stamped.

Rgds
Dutch


#19

Dutch - thank you! That likely answers the question. I was just making an uneducated guess. :-) I really had no pinion on whether Anschuss rounds were made for MGs or not.


#20

Damn, my response to John Moss somehow got lost. I will try again (and then take care of Dutch, if I may say so.)

A downgraded lot would have had in any case removed the Anschuss marking.

We are talking of 1943, and the ammunition consumption was at a rate that there was no time for formally downgrading one. This is especially true of the precious Anschuss lots with the lead cored sS bullet, of which there were never enough. I would also like to mention that manufacturer “cg” (Finow, formerly Hirsch Kupfer und Messing, disposessed from the Jewish owners) was held in especially high regard for the quality of its ammunition.

It is my view that someone at Finow had the labels erroneously overprinted as if it were an ordinary steel cased SmE cartridge lot from this manufacturer. Formally, these rounds of course were qualified to be fired from machine guns.

Dutch, you know much more about markings of German 7.9 mm than I ever will. Machine guns were of course also zeroed, but according to HDv 242 only with respect to mean point of impact, without considering dispersion. The view that Anschuss cartridges were used for this is a bit like trying to convince me that the Americans use M118 sniper cartridges for zeroing their machine guns. It is against everything I know about how Wehrmacht looked at the Anschuss lots.

Your label from 1945 with the overprinted Anschuss marking could indeed be held against my view. But who knows what actually happened in these chaotic conditions. It could simply be partly preprinted labels that were at hand. I see now real chance of a sort of downgrading process that late in the war, when everyone was trying to produce at all, whatever the quality.