7,92x57 black tip on CNCS bullet, no headstamp

I have a 7,92x57 black tip on .323" CNCS bullet, no headstamp. Black annulus primer. Any ideas?


Joe, I believe these are Turkish “guard” loads, though I don’t know the manufacture. Yours probably came from Phil, who got them from me. These were found in the final “floor sweepings” shipments from Turkey. If you shake the case, you will notice the low charge. I have fired a few and the velocity is quite low, maybe 1200 fps. Bullet is 154 grains in weight. There is a later Turkish loading from the 1950’s with the case head completely painted red which duplicates this cartridge. Besides the painted head, the bullet has a knurled cannelure which is quite different than the standard service loading, as well as the small powder charge. Let me know if you want pictures of the later loading, but I think you got samples when you were here last. JH

Thanks Jim, Yes you gave me two with the red die on the headstamp. One for Peter and one for me. I will be darned where I put mine as it is not in my collection. The one in there must have been from Phil as it is corroded on the end. Everything I get from you is always as good as can be had. Did you give me a couple off of a stripper or the whole strippers worth?? Sorry, my memory is lousy as always.


Hey Joe,
Yes, I gave you two rounds off a charger. I do have others if you need them. I forgot to mention that the mid 1950’s low power load also has a NCS bullet jacket, while the ball loads for the Turkish 7’9 had switched to GM some years earlier, about late 1949. JH

Jim, I cleaned this one up a bit, but could use a better example. Maybe this was the best two you had on the stripper…I do not remember.
Yes I concur with what I have in my Turk 7,9 collection, that 1949 was the transition. I have both CNCS & GM of 5 distinctive different ball round bunter stampings saved and I do not do all the minute variances in there bunter stampings. You can go nuts with that.