7.92x57 mauser "giftpatrone" (poison bullet) and yugo M75

General Ammunition Discussion
#1

hello
i remember an old drawing about this cartridge
i would know if this cartridge is a joke or not ?

in the description:
steel black lacquered case without headstamp with nickel stepped bullet and glass ampul

i noticed that he describe the box contained these cartridges and the manufacturer
they made similar poison bullet but in 9x19 (topics on this forum exists)

i had other question about yugo 7.92x57 loadings ?
what the difference between the M49 and the M75

thank in advance for your responses

#2

Ammogun, the M75 is usually found on sniper loadings and I have not seen them being used in any regular loads.
It would be interesting to see both as a cutaway then.

#3

marstar.ca/html/reflibrary/Y … erm75.html

marstar.ca/html/reflibrary/Y … llm49.html

#4

Joe, thanks a lot!

#5

The company named in the French text is a garbled form of: Deutsche Gesellschaft für Schädlingsbekämpfung, abbreviated Degesch.
It was set up to produce the pesticide Zyklon B, used for mass-murdering people in the annihilation camps.

I have no idea whether the cartridge existed or was a project.

#6

hello
thank for your responses
maybe a project (if they made the 7.65 brg and 9x19 poison ,there are no reason that they not made these in 7.92x57)

#7

Degesh company still exists to-day, under the name of DEGUSSA…They do not manufacture anymore Zyklon B (!) but make many implements and artifacts for medical and dental domains… As far as it is known, they had no problems after 1945…

Phil.

#8

Degussa was founded in 1873 as “Deutsche Gold- und Silber-Scheide-Anstalt, vormals Roessler”, and was a refinery for silver, gold and similar precious metals.
Shareholders sold Degussa to Evonik in 2006, and it dropped its name accordingly. Today the old name only exists in the form of a bank (a spin-off from the original company in 1976) and a entirely new company dealing in gold (Degussa Goldhandel). The latter only purchased the rights to the name for publicity reasons. (The Schmeisser weapons makers of today are a similar example.)

Degesch was a subsidiary of Degussa.

American historian Peter Hayes wrote a book about Degussa history. (I know it exists, but have nor read it.)

#9

The only confirmed documentation of a German made poison bullet from WWII that I know of was the material put together for the IAA Seminar at SLICS some years ago and later published in the Journal (#451) which included a photograph of the 7.65mm poison bullet cartridge.

The development and use of these cartridges was covered in the proceedings of the Nuremburg Trials. The work began after the Germans acquired some Soviet made 7.65 Browning poison bullet rounds. The initial work was with 9x19mm and 45ACP loads, but it was determined that these would generally pass through the target and that it was appropriate that the bullet remain in the victim so that more poison remained in the victim. The poison used by both the Soviets and the Germans was reportedly aconite. Five condemned Soviet POWs were shot in the leg with German 7.65mm poison bullets. In two cases the bullet exited the leg and no effect of the poison was noted. In the three cases where the bullet remained in the leg, the victim died within a few hours. This activity was going on in mid-1944.

Reportedly 200 of these 7.65mm rounds were delivered to Skorzeny’s Jagdkommandos supply organization. Skorzeny claimed he received 40 rounds in the Spring of 1944. In addition the Reichkiminalpolizeiamt received 40rds, and possibly additional ammunition (30rds) were delivered to the Jagdkommandos.

Given the unsuitability of the 9x19mm and 45ACP for use with a poison bullet because of excess penetration, the utility of a 7.9mm poison bullet seems very questionable.

I would be very interested in any source information on the 7.9mm poison bullet, or on a 9x19mm poison bullet made by the Germans. Lots of speculation on this area but except the the article cited, I have seen little confirmation.

Cheers,
Lew Curtis

#10

hello
for the 7.92x57 ,maybe a subsonic load ?

#11

As far as I know, there is certainly one 7,9 bullet in a collectors collection
that I saw a few years back.
It`s a german 7,9 bullet with inside a glass ampul .
The bullet is a dug up and in bad shape.
I wil try to get a picture.

451kr.

#12

[quote=“451kr”]As far as I know, there is certainly one 7,9 bullet in a collectors collection
that I saw a few years back.
It`s a german 7,9 bullet with inside a glass ampul .
The bullet is a dug up and in bad shape.
I wil try to get a picture.

451kr.[/quote]

That would be great if you could find a picture of it. I would be most interested in seeing this. Thanks. -Ger

#13

Unfortunately in bad shape but better than nothing.
What it was exactly is not knowing.

Brass case Headstamp: P131 39




Courtesy: W.Micke

451kr.

#14

hello
thank for these pictures

but the casing is straigt and shortened ?

another german experimental caliber based on 7.92x57 ?

#15

From the drawing, it appears likely that the ampule would be destroyed by the ignition of the powder charge.

#16

451kr, Thanks, Great addition to Forum! Interesting because it is outside anything I discussed above, unless someone was using very old cases.

Jonnyc, I agree with you and that may be the intent, to put out a spray of poison rather than act as a projectile. This would imply a very specialized weapon. I have a hard time seeing how this design would work in a 7.9x57mm weapon. A trip down a 7.9mm barrel would crush the glass ampul.

Great Stuff!!!

Do you think this item is the origin of the drawing in the first post of this thread? If it is, the artist took a bit of license with his illustration. Maybe he drew from another specimen.

Cheers,
Lew