7,92x57 Schönebeck headstamp


#1

Cannot remember on this Schönebeck 7,9. Need to label it and put away. Other than German, that is all I can muster.

joe




#2

Sellier & Bellot Plant set up at Schoenebeck (?1920s? or Before WW I?) and “acquired” by the Nazi Party Organisation once the Czechoslovak state was “absorbed” in 1938-39.

Don’t remember what its “P” number or its Lettercode details were…It is listed as “Munitionsfabrik Schoenebeck vormals Selier & Bellot” )

After WW II, became an East German (DDR) plant producing 7,9 and 7,9x33 steel cases ammo, etc.

After Re-unification of Germany and disposal of former DDR assets, became part of Lapua, and specializes in making high quality .22RF Competition ammo.

Doc AV


#3

Doc, to what we know today Schönebeck did not make any 7.9 steel cases after 1945 during GDR times.


#4

Yes, my brain finally woke up. Schönebeck, of course, (P69).
Doc AV, thanks for the info, very interesting about lapua. I had noticed that the new lapua .22RF says made in Germany, I just did not know where.

Alex, “04” is Königswartha, what is the code for Schönebeck?

joe


#5

Joe, Schönebeck used “201”.


#6

There were two ammunition factories at Schönebeck:

  1. Sellier & Bellot
  2. Munitionswerke, founded by Otto Allendorff
    Both coexisted before WWI. There were advertisements by both companies in the same issue of journal “Schuss & Waffe” for example.

While S&B Prague was part of Czechoslowak nostrification (as it was called), after the end of WWI S&B Schönebeck was owned by Austrian shareholders. It had the Steyr-Puch logo in its letterhead that was also used for Steyr automobiles, for example. In the end Fritz Mandl of Hirtenberger became the sole shareholder.
Under Nazi rule, Mandl found himself declared a Jew and was squeezed out (Arisierung) at the insistence of German authorities. S&B Schönebeck became owned by Rheinmetall.


#7

JPeelen, do you happen to have adocument where Schönebeck was featuring the Steyr logo? It would be most interesting to see if possible.

Do you know when Rheinmetall became involved (date) and what logo Schönebeck was using at that time?


#8

In the Rheinmetall archives is a letter from Rheinmetall to Heereswaffenamt, dated Oct 9th 1933, informing the latter that the transfer of Patronenfabrik took effect (Kauf vollzogen) on Oct 7th 1933. Rheinmetall expresses its hopes that the production contracts hinted at (in Aussicht gestellt) for this factory will now be granted.

Regarding the letterhead with the logo I will send you a private mail during the next days. I am not in a position to publish it on the internet. On later letterheads no logo was used, just the text: Patronen-, Zündhütchen- und Metallwarenfabrik Aktiengesellschaft / vormals Sellier & Bellot.

P.S. Director of the factory under Mandl was Major Waldemar Pabst (yes, the notorious right-wing extremist)
Director of the Factory under Rheinmetall was Alfred von Vollard-Bockelberg (former head of Heereswaffenamt)


#9

I am one of these fellows that likes to look at addresses to see where old factories one stood. I look at aerial pictures for the town of Schönebeck and it seems to have had a couple of spots where there is evidence of long forgotten industries. No address for the old Sellier & Bellot or Munitionswerke, founded by Otto Allendorff

Joe


#10

The old S&B location, in use till the end of the GDR was in the middle of town (Salzer Str, main railway line, Rudolf-Breitscheidt-Str, Republikstr.) When I was there in the nineties, a primitive sort of shot tower still stood. Along the railway line a wall with barbed wire on top and an elevated observation post could still be seen. Obviously considered a high security location by GDR authorities. The railway crossing was level, not a bridge like today. EDIT: Modern maps show Söker Str. which did not exist at the time.
2ndEDIT: Street address was Salzer Strasse 14

Munitionswerke is in many aspects still a riddle to me. I assume it was in the industrial area to the north-west of Schönebeck. The explosives factory (first Lignose, then VEB Sprengstoffwerk, then Anhaltinische Chemische Fabriken, ACF) there is gone. Only the Lapua factory uses the old premises. On satellite images the outside firing range should be visible.


#11

JPeelen, thanks a lot! Will send you a PM.


#12

[quote]JPeelen, do you happen to have adocument where Schönebeck was featuring the Steyr logo? It would be most interesting to see if possible.

Do you know when Rheinmetall became involved (date) and what logo Schönebeck was using at that time?[/quote]
Alex, here you can see the Steyr trademark used by SB for shotshells (1939 pricelist):


#13

[quote=“JPeelen”]The old S&B location, in use till the end of the GDR was in the middle of town (Salzer Str, main railway line, Rudolf-Breitscheidt-Str, Republikstr.) When I was there in the nineties, a primitive sort of shot tower still stood. Along the railway line a wall with barbed wire on top and an elevated observation post could still be seen. Obviously considered a high security location by GDR authorities. The railway crossing was level, not a bridge like today. EDIT: Modern maps show Söker Str. which did not exist at the time.
2ndEDIT: Street address was Salzer Strasse 14

Munitionswerke is in many aspects still a riddle to me. I assume it was in the industrial area to the north-west of Schönebeck. The explosives factory (first Lignose, then VEB Sprengstoffwerk, then Anhaltinische Chemische Fabriken, ACF) there is gone. Only the Lapua factory uses the old premises. On satellite images the outside firing range should be visible.[/quote]

Thanks, I would have never figured out it had been there.

joe


#14

Fede, thanks for the Steyr logo on the cartridges, that is very helpfull!
Also I used the “Davidka” in a search and found what I needed.