Looking to find out if this is real or not. Sold to me as 7.93x22mm and measures the same(22.02). Head stamp in serifs DM at 12 o’clock, stars at 9+3, and K at the bottom. Brass rimless case with a taper from 9.37 to 8.57 at neck. Nickel/steel? bullet has three punch crimps. Primer set at .004 What was it used in and when? Thanks Wolf
Pics at forums.gunboards.com/showthread. … -7-93x22mm 32acp, 7.93x22mm, 38super+p


No images there unless you take the time to register on their Forum. Pictures should be posted on this Forum.

John Moss


With John’s request, re: post the pictures here vs attaching a link, I’m curious as to the properness or copyright infringement issues inherent in doing that.

Is it OK to snag and post pics from another site like that?

If it is NOT a copyrighted image, and posted on a public forum, regardless of registration requirements, is it kosher to post somebody else’s pics without “permission”?

I have done this with pictures from auction sites and such, figuring I was helping with their marketing, but another forum’s pictures?

Personally, with regards to any pictures I post, I could care less if somebody else wants to use them to prove a point, or whatever.

What’s the protocol here?


Didn’t mean to steal your thread here. Some consider the unauthorized use of their pictures as theft, regardless of context.

There are some forums/boards that have gone to the use of watermarks and overprints to “protect” their images as there are unscrupulous folks utilizing same for monetary gain.


Rick - I would share your concern about snatching pictures from other sites. It probably should NOT be done. Since the original question on the thread alluded to a cartridge sold to him, I assumed it was his picture that he posted on another Forum, in which case, there would be no infringement if he reposted his own picture here.

John Moss


Looks like an 8 x 22mm Bergmann.

The site below is in Spanish but has some very good photos and a diagram with all the measurements.



Falcon - for those that cannot manage the Spanish used on the Municion.Org site, they offer a very credible English translation on each of the data pages. In the upper right corner is a rectangle in which is the word TRANSLATE. Just clicking on that instantly turns the Spanish text into very decent English. This feature, for those that don’t read Spanish, increases the enjoyment of this outstanding website.

John Moss


And I 2nd John’s comment on enjoying it. An amazing collection of ammo. The member’s collections are phenomenal. The “translate” button works very well.


Yes they are my pics, and anyone can use them. Always and anytime. But, I can see other side of story with copy right laws. Best to always ask first, the worst is a no, right. Someone else on the other board guessed 8mm Bergmann as well. Good eye Falcon. Found some other pics at Pistol Cartidge Lists when googled. Had to look up what a bergmann was, never seen one. I need to learn to post pics here because got some good ones that you all would like to see. Thanks everyone, wolf


Rick, in principle all images will be copyrighted unless they are so old they have fallen out of copyright (i.e. older than you or me…). Some sources give permission for anyone to use them as they wish (notably, the US Government allows this for all official photos - lovely people, a great help to authors looking for book illustrations!). For others, strictly speaking permission should be sought, although I must admit I’ve sometimes copied photos from reference sites like Wiki.

What I always do is post a link to the source of the photo along with it - that’s common courtesy. I sometimes see photos from my website on other sites. I prefer to be asked first, but I only get irritated if they are posted without reference to my site.


Wolf, that was me on Gunboards. If you can post there you should be able to post here. I use Photobucket in both places and it seems to work fine.


Lets see if this worked! wolf


Very good pictures. The cartridge is definitely a Bergmann 8 mm No. 4 round, DWM Case Register No. 451, although with the earlier * D.M. * K. headstamp. Neither the rarest nor the most common of Bergmann rounds. The latter production of this round with the K DWM K 451 headstamp is very scarce. Have looked for 40 years and never been able to find one. In fact, it is one of only two DWM case numbers that are KNOWN to have actually appeared on auto pistol cartridges that I do not have. There are some shown in books with a case-number headstamp drawn or reported, but where no actual specimen is known. Specimens of the No. 4 Bergmann with “471” headstamp ARE known.

John Moss