Can someone tell me the significance of the
Phil, might the “P” be the Spanish abbreviation for “puntiagudo” = “pointed” what would mean spitzer bullet?
The term Bala P in Spanish almost always refers to Bala Perforante, or “Pentrating Ball” - Armor Piercing. I have no reason to believe it does not with the rounds in question.
On page 93 of M
Phil, SPr as you said is only incendiary. To my knowledge the “SPr” stands for “Spitzgeschoss Phosphor”, what if “P” stood for “pointed”, would be the full translation of the German designation into Spanish. Just an accident?
Phil - I thought we were talking about the label on the right. The label on the left clearly indicates that the rounds are Phosphorous Incendiary.
I guess I stand corrected. I can only relate what I know of Spanish and South American Appellations. These rounds were probably made in Austria and perhaps it is simply a poorly applied abbreviation. I don’t know. I can’t see why the box would say “pointed” especially abbreviated like that. The fact they are pointed is pretty obvious information. But then, who knows.
I change my answer to “I haven’t a clue” as without documentation, everything is just a guess since it doesn’t follow the norm for Spanish designations.
The term exact in spanish of “P” is pointed = spitzer (in english).
I think so that this box and cartridges was amnufactured fron Hinterberger for the republic goberment during spanish Civil war.
John, EOD, E_MIL_IO
my thanks to all for your responses
It is obvious that various Posters are “assuming” and NOT READING THE Packet Label…
The Pink Label says “Cartuchos Fosforosos” which in anyones Languagae, means “Phosporus filled cartridge”… and it is followed by “Bala P”…More obvious than that is Oxymoronic…
Furthermore, in Spanish ( common) Parlance ( Both Castilian and Latin American),
“Pointed ball” is Bala Puntada ( “pointed” )or Militarily, "Bala “S” ( for Light) and Bala “SS” (for heavy), directly copying the German designations.
Round nose is vulgarily called “Bala redonda” ( rounded ball)
Early German contracts of SmK ( AP) ammo for Spain ( and Portugal) "RWS “E37” lots, were simply labeled "SmK Penetrante (especial,) or simply SmK. ( again, true German style)
I simply don’t know how these abstruse Anlgocentric interpretations have crept into this simple discussion on Spanish (special) ammo.
Doc Av - these "abstruse Anglocentric interpretations creep into this simple discussion on Spanish ammo from such “Anglo” sources as "Secretaria de Guerra, FT-Mun D2, “Municion de Armas Portatiles, I Edicion, 1963,” which describes only the armor piercing round as "Cartucho con bala perforante “P.” Also, by the way, the most used term for round nose in Argentina, and according to "Cartucheria Espa
Pardon me, JM, if I seem a bit pernickety of late…just ask any survivor of Open Heart Surgery…they all get very “uppity” for some 4-6 months, but , despite what learned researchers have expounded regarding Spanish Ordnance Languadge, yourself included, I find it irritating that others “don’t read the Label/s” and apply a bit of (un)common sense before making wide statements which don’t apply to the case in point…and just to re-inforce my take on the use of Spanish, I did mention “vulgar” terms, which do occur in English as well…they may not be Militarily “PC” but they convey the idea.
As for Argentina, I know the country well ( lots of old time family Migrant connections, even in the Military) and I correspond regularly with Collectors and Forensic People there ( in Spanish) although my technical Spanish may not be as extensive as yours.
Let us agree to disagree on particular points, which in the end become whiffs of gunsmoke of no account. The important thing is that we get the knowledge out there, as correct as possible, by the old Greek (and Marxian) principal of
Thesis-Anti-thesis–> Synthesis to come to a technical and historically correct result ( and Not the Marxist Philosophical Distrotion which gave us (the world) over a hundred & fifty years of “Dictatorship of the Proletariat” and its Socialist running dogs.)
Enough of Political disquisitions, otherwise I will be banned by our learned Monitors…Philosphical observations only…
Always grateful for your pointed Criticisms, John… They correct and widen my Knowledge.
Doc - nothing to qpologize for. As for my technical Spanish being better than yours - not a chance. I just happen to have some good books and manuals from Spanish-speaking countries. My Spanish is generally underatandable, but with poor grammar and, if the subject is social, much local Mexican vocabulary.
I wish you well on your open-heart surgery. I have, knock wood, only had surgery once in my life, and I am just ready to turn 70, and it was simple, and it still had me cranky and under the weather for the better part of a monthy. Of course, there are those who would say, probably with accuracy, that I am cranky and under the weather all the time!
Language is a wonderful thing, but with so many ways to say things in almost every language (English is one of the worst for that, I think), it is a wonder that any of us can keep this terminology straight.
Speaking of that, did our Lexicon of Foreign language ammunition terms project die? A shame if it did. A good start was made, and with all the people on this forum so rich in languages, including Doc Av of course, fluent in, it would seem to me, many languages, it should not be such a difficult project. I think it would be useful, and could even be published by IAA as a special project issue of the Journal, especially if done digitally to keep the cost of producing it at a minimum. It would probably help all of us.
Doc, thanks for your kind and considerat reply - no sarcasm there - I mean it. Hope you are feeling better. It just is no fun to be not up to par!