7.9mm SmKH


#1

For those who enjoy German 7.9mm & the S.m.K.H. in particular. The sleeves are full and the seals unbroken. Nice, huh?



#2

HUH!


#3

you are a rich man!


#4

Wonderfull- close up of the box labels ?


#5

Will take some pictures later in the week of the sleeve (Packh


#6

All I can say is WOW!

One of the five sleeves is different, and marked as being in clips. Is this typical packaging to have one in clips and the rest not? Also, the label indicating the lots and various componants are “verschieden” indicates to me that the contents are a re-pack of mixed lots?

Very interesting!

AKMS


#7

This case is a mixed lot and it will be interesting to see close ups of the labels.


#8

Just got back from taking some more pictures of 7.9mm SmKH.
First I would like to clear up a couple of points. One


#9

Very interesting and thank you for the excellent photos. This adds a lot to the story of this type of cartridge. I have not finished the study of your box labels but at first blush it looks like all 3 types were in manufacture at the same time. I would like to know the story of such a mixed lot case. The case label looks right.

Your original case labels says it is a mixed lot and so it could have any type or maker of SMKH in it. Are you saying that the black bulleted ones came in the case ?


#10

[quote=“AKMS”]All I can say is WOW!

One of the five sleeves is different, and marked as being in clips. Is this typical packaging to have one in clips and the rest not? Also, the label indicating the lots and various componants are “verschieden” indicates to me that the contents are a re-pack of mixed lots?

Very interesting!

AKMS[/quote]

The case label says that this is a mixed lot of SMKH and could hold any maker or box.


#11

[quote=“CSAEOD”]Very interesting and thank you for the excellent photos. This adds a lot to the story of this type of cartridge. I have not finished the study of your box labels but at first blush it looks like all 3 types were in manufacture at the same time. I would like to know the story of such a mixed lot case. The case label looks right.

Your original case labels says it is a mixed lot and so it could have any type or maker of SMKH in it. Are you saying that the black bulleted ones came in the case ?[/quote]

Yes, all five sleeves are from Polte and have the same headstamp (P S* 8 40). The bullet, core, and powder lots differ. The bullets are all black and the primers have a red annulus. There are no red stripes on the clips.

The P 178 L. 38 sleeve, also from polte has GMCS bullets, red primers and redstripes on the clips. Repacked at Heeresmunitionsanstalt (Army Ammunition Depot), Ingolstadt, Bavaria on 14 October 1938.

pbutler


#12

Excellent post- thank you.


#13

They are coming out of the woods.

See:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/INERT-GERMAN-WW2-7-92x57-CARTRIDGES-SMK-H-TUNGSTEN-AP_W0QQitemZ230149828984QQihZ013QQcategoryZ4721QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

On ebay:

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#14

I can hardly believe what I am reading. I thought cartridge collecting was a hobby. When we find a stock of items that were scarce at one time, are we supposed to hide them and pretend they don’t exist, or destroy them, just so some dealers in such items can continue to sell them at big prices when they aren’t really rare any more? I think the English word for that is “fraud.”

I paid 100.00 for my first 5.45 x 18 Russian pistol cartridge from a reputable dealer. He was not wrong to charge that, albeit I was probably dumb to pay it. The cartridges when he sold me mine were all but unknown in the U.S. I now have 10 or more variants, and have not paid over a dollar or so for any since - most were given me free - with the exception of some colored aluminum dummies that I suspect have no real meaning, but are just manufactured as “collector items.” I am not complaining about paying 100.00. That is just the way any market works - supply and demand.

Let’s call a rare cartridge a rare cartridge, but when it isn’t rare anymore, let’s stop pretending it is just so some people can make a lot of money off of them. For those of us who have spent a lot already only to have a “rare” cartridge become common, so what? Caveat Emptor. There are good investments in the real world and there are poor investments. C’est la vie!

In the interim, I hope Phil and others will keep up these good postings where we all learn more about certain types of ammunition. I think that is what the Forum is all about - learning.

John Moss


#15

I am not really sure with whom you are taking umbrage this time ( if history is any guide it is likely me - I had not been attacked by you or Jon for several days and was starting to feel insignificant ). There are apparently a lot more SMKH shells out there than any of us thought and that is GREAT news for collectors of such stuff. Not such great news for dealers who are invested in quantity. I am now looking for that case lot of self destroying tracers and SS headstamped 7.9s.

Since a favorite weapon of the SS troops was the submachinegun where are all the SS headstamped 9mms?

Rather than taking unreasonable attitudes toward Capitalism, collectors might better understand that it is the DEALERS who keep this “hobby” growing and ALL benefit from GOOD BUSINESS ; ALL.

I know that we ALL expect top dollar return for our rarities.

Market forces are what they are. I would love to see a case of one inch Gatling cannisters show up. It would undermine the value of mine but lots more folks could own them.

What is most often heard from COLLECTORS is “its not for sale”. Of course, collecting is the opposite of selling. “Not for sale” and “for trade only” are death knells for any market of exchange. “FOR SALE” is its life blood!

GOD BLESS THE DEALERS , ENTREPRENEURS AND THOSE WHO CARE ABOUT CAPTALISM AND THE CUSTOMERS.

Anyone posting their opinion about normal market forces should be attacked?

I CAN BELIEVE WHAT I AM READING AS IT HAS BECOME PRETTY TYPICAL STUFF !


#16

I am not sure who Phil is but I am thinking you mean pbutler. Yes he and everyone else should post whatever they like. Those were the best 7.9 SMKH photos ever posted.

We need more of the same!


#17

This site is dedicated to the study of ammunition, not marketing ammunition as a commodity. Inevitably questions and considerations of value occur, but it is, again, NOT the focus of this site.

Anyone may post text or photos of related material. If another party has a problem with a post, their dissent should (read that as “will”) be couched in terminology which will not be taken as a personal affront. Keep the verbiage diplomatic and the discourse will be civil.

The site staff are always available to respond to concerns about a particular posting and OFTEN it is better to communicate through them in such matters than directly, especially in “public.”

I have removed or edited several posts on this thread in keeping with the above.

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#18

Dr. Schmitt - I was not referring to you at all. If you read my post well, I don’t see how you could think I was. I found your responses to the posting from France to be well-reasoned and moderate.

I have nothing against dealers that sell rounds for a fair profit and at fair prices. My objections are to those that continue to sell at high prices when a cartridge is no longer rare, and get angry when someone acquires a quantity of previously rare ammunition and treats it like the common round it has become.

In fact, your posting where you seem to believe I was critical of you says about the same thing mine did about market forces, and about wishing that more people could own nice rounds. Also, I mentioned in my example of the 5.45 x 18 that I had no grievance against the dealer who sold it to me for a big price because at that time, it was still a rare round in the U.S.

When I think you are off base I will respond. However, don’t read things in that aren’t there. I was not even giving your postings a thought - again, I felt your responses to this issue were fine.


#19

[quote=“JohnMoss”]Dr. Schmitt - I was not referring to you at all. If you read my post well, I don’t see how you could think I was. I found your responses to the posting from France to be well-reasoned and moderate.
.[/quote]

Hi john !
You must read again what I wrote or perhaps I do not writte english good enough to be understood.

  1. You know who has this staff and you got some of these ctges from this nice guy with xeros copies of the labels. And furthermore I am sure you know the story of these rounds (quantity, origin).
    You put the rounds into your collection and were happy to have them.
    Did you tell everybody that one guy has 1500 rounds or more ? No.

  2. I know also this guy and saw this staff 3 years ago.
    And I said nothing because when some guy is nice enough to show me something and to tell me to keep my mouth quiet, I obey.

  3. Some other people saw this staff also and said nothing.

  4. I just got only five or six rounds (for my collection and for a friend).
    Only that, so I have absolutely no interest in this business.
    And I if the price of this ammo is dropping I do not care for myself but for my friend.

  5. Indeed if he had decided to show all that himself, I would say : it is his business.
    (For me) it was not the case and it is for that I was upset.

JP


#20

Gentlemen -

Thank you for the verbal handshakes.

Let’s get back to our regular business and have some fun.

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