7,9x57 H.Huck dummy with 2 cannelures and a pin


#1

50 cent bin digging. Major find. What the heck is this? No headstamp, it is a dummy.

DSCF6984


#2

7.9x57 German by HUCK I believe, there ought to be back threads on this


#3

Thanks Pete. I found this previous discussion 7.92x57mm Huck Dummy


#4

Ex-Patr DM20 if I remember correctly, they can also be found with four small case flutes on them.
Tony


#5

Any idea why this dummy is constructed this way? Meaning it is bimetal with threaded parts. Isn’t it cheaper to make a one piece dummy?


#6

Makes quite good sense from a materials perspective for the longevity of the cartridges life span. The hard / tough steel of the head is ideal for the abuse received from the bolt face, extractor, and ejector, whereas the drawn body of brass requires less strength & is simply crimped on. Saves unnecessary machining of steel for the entire cartridge.


#7

So then how come the majority of dummies are one piece cartridge wise? I rarely see this 2 piece bimetal arrangement.


#8

It’s simpler to have a one-piece construction, so simplifies production, but if it’s made from steel it’s harder on the cutting tools & uses / wastes more material. These Huck dummies are in principle similar to the German plastic dummies with a steel head.


#9

Vlad, the term “bimetal” is incorrect here.

The dummies are made this way just because it is the cheapest way to do it seems.

One need to cut one open and check the tip section. Right now I suspect these to have been made from brass tube. But this thought needs to be confirmed.


#10

Yes, from memory it’s hollow brass crimped onto the steel head section, I saw a section image years when I was looking into a 7.62mmx51 version of the Huck dummy that I had. I will see if I can retrieve it again over the next couple of days.


#11

Found these documents sent to me by an ECRA collector must be around 30 years ago! Note the solid brass dummies don’t have the external crimps that the hollow bodied one’s do, and the solid ones seem to have a steel (?) tip fitted also.


#12

Thanks for an encyclopedia of German dummies. If my round is 44, it is classified as Ausbildungspatrone (teaching aid) while others are called Exersierpatrone (practice). What the huck is the difference? Isn’t a dummy something you can show and then insert into a gun and dry fire? I was never in the military anywhere. So I don’t know how training is conducted.


#13

Vlad, I’m sorry, my understanding of the German language is not good, but it may be similar to the difference in the British Army between a ‘Drill Round’ and a ‘Dummy Round’. A drill round is subject to much rougher handling as it is a visually obvious inert round that is used to train soldiers dry firing of firearms such as loads, unloads, & stoppage drills etc. A dummy round is used by armourers to check the mechanical functioning of firearms so is subject to a lot less rough handling, Pete.


#14

The designation here is quite confusing and not following German military terminology.

And as we see one and the same cartridge has 2 different designations where the only difference is the presence of some flutes (upper list #42 and #44).
Means somebody was using self-invented terminology and could not even keep it stringent.
Or as may be noticed the 2 listed “Ausbildungspatrone” was for the Federal Police - that could explain odd wording as these folks are usually way less strict in terminology than the military.

So the wording here boils down to “dummy” (US) or “drill” (UK).


#15

It might not be relevant, however I would add that in the UK Drill Rounds tend to have fluted cases, but Dummy Rounds that are otherwise visually quite similar, do not have fluted cases.


#16

Yes, but we can agree that the UK system does not apply here.

I think I also saw UK “drill” rounds without flutes.


#17

Yes, just offering the British system as a comparison, although in the UK flutes on Drill Rounds are definitely the norm these days, with a very few exceptions.


#18

Vlad dummies can be also used for testing packaging, testing links, displays for show where live ammunition is prohibited, creating displays or awards or for factory sales people to show, cycling firearms, safely testing firearm mechanisms without damage to the firearm or folks in the area, plus other uses that don’t come to mind at the moment.

The design and construction of the dummy is often determined by the end use and the folks using it. Why there are so many kinds, styles & types in just about any case type, even .22 rimfires.

Perhaps in the case of this dummy / drill, perhaps the manufacturer, had a brother-in-law in the government, who really liked him because he was a really, really nice brother-in-law and needed to keep his manufacturing facility busy and so gave him a contract to make a bizillion of these dummies?

Or maybe there was a specific use for this such as a teaching aid, & with all the goofy bits to it it would be easily recognized as such ?

It actually might have a wrong dimension to some part of it so it couldn’t even fit a “real” chamber, or fit only the chamber of the classroom firearm(s)?

Just talking here…no checking or measuring.

Point being unless the information governing (in the US a T.M. or advertising) the use of a certain type of dummy or drill is available it’s designed “why” may, (or may not) be hard to pin down. (Pun intended)


#19

Exerzierpatrone and Ausbildungspatrone are the same thing, meaning a drill round. The first is Bundeswehr terminology. In basic training we were issued the type listed as no. 42 above.

Ausbildungspatrone is the term used by the Federal Border Police (Bundesgrenzschutz, BGS). I verified this in a BGS field manual of 1953. Harmonization of terminology came much later.