7.9x57 (inert) headstamp dnf St+ anomaly


#1

…withdrawn.
Sam3


#2

The projectile is not German and should not be in this case,

The “St” error is observed on some cases. The experts on this sure can tell the details.


#3

EOD,
Appreciate your comment.
Disappointing purchase…on my part.
Content withdrawn.
Sam3


#4

Would it not be prudent to leave the content, potentially sparing someone else from a “disappointing purchase”?


#5

These German cases marked with the wrong material designator
are not very common. The only important thing about them is
the headstamp “error” (which in some cases may not be an actual
error, but simply a war-time contingency), as they are found with
generally very common loadings. There is no reason to be disappointed
in obtaining one of these scarce cases, where the headstamp is everything.

I also do not understand deleting a piece of information from the forum because
it contains “disappointing” information. Isn’t it true that questions are asked
here specifically to learn something about cartridges we have acquired? The
answers help us all to learn more about the items we collect.

I agree entirely with Apoc69’s question/statement.

John Moss


#6

Hi John,

Headstamp: dnf St+ (Rheinische-Westfaelische Sprengstoff AG, Stadeln plant, Nuernberg.)
Brass case, non-magnetic
Projectile magnetic
Red annulus

The projectile is probably not the original (looks very similar to some FN examples I’ve seen from the late1960’s.
Does the primer look original?
The case might be the only part associated with the original 1943 manufacturing date?

Sam3


#7

I agree with John. In some cases I suspect these brass case St headstamps are not a mistake but are purposeful. Regardless, a very interesting case.

Cheers,
Lew


#8

Sam3 - For the most part, German headstamps of this period
ONLY identify the case, and when it was made. Who and when
it was loaded, and who made the other components (bullet, powder
and primer) basically cannot be identified without the box label.

In my opinion, from the picture, the primer in your dnf round is
original. The bullet is likely not. I would pull the bullet out and
dump any powder that is in it, and save just the primed case. It
is a very nice headstamp and well worth keeping. Before I sold
my 7.9 x 57 collection, I had 12,600 specimens of that caliber, from
all eras, sporting and military, and all countries. I am not sure I had
that particular dnf case, although I had number of brass case
rounds with steel-case headstamps. I think I only had one with a steel
case, but a brass-case headstamp, although I could be wrong about
that.

The code dnf is an interesting one on 7.9 x 57 cases. Firstly, they did
not made a huge amount of lot numbers. Secondly, they were, as I recall,
the only factory that used the same code on product from two separate
factories; at least the only one I know of. The old Utendörfer factory in the
downtown area of Nürnberg was one, and was assigned the dnf code with
the block of lot numbers from 1 thru 49. The other factory was at Staldeln,
which used the lot number blocks from 50 and upward. It also explains missing
lots, since they are not missing at all. Stadeln simply began with lot 51 regardless
of the highest number reached by the Nürnberg plant, that is, where they left off.

You may note I have omitted lot number 50. That is simply because when I received
this information some years ago, it was given to me by knowledgeable German sources
this as I have recounted it here. For some reason, lot number 50 was omitted. It almost
certainly was part of the directive assigning the number blocks to the two factories, but
I don’t know which one was responsible for lot 50. If I had to guess, I would think it was
almost certainly the Nürnberg factory (1 thru 50).

Hope this is of some interest and help.

john Moss


#9

Dutch has documented this case (brass with St+ 1 43 headstamp) in his extensive list as SmK Lspur -v-, which is in agreement with the case shown by Sam3. The original bullet would have had a black tip (tracer) and below it a green ring (-v- ammunition for aircraft machine guns). The present bullet is obviously wrong.

The same case lot (made into SmK Lspur -v- cartridges) with a correct S* in the headstamp also exists, again according to Dutch. His unique collection of data in Excel files on a Belgian web page recently disappeared from the Internet, and I am quoting from my HTML-files of 2003 vintage.

His data also supports what John mentioned: RWS is the only factoy that shows two case lot blocks: one starting at 1 and the other one, introduced in 1939, starting at 51. The latter block shows many more lot numbers and for 1945, case lot 51 is the only number known. That, in my view, supports the assumption of the first block being used by the old factory in downtown Nuremberg, which was destroyed by bombing late in the war.


#10

Thanks to everyone (EOD, Apoc69, John, Lew and JPeelan) for your thoughts and comments.
Regards,
Sam3


#11

Interesting reading. Thanks for resurrecting the thread Sam.


#12

JPeelen is correct.

The picture shows the cartridge as it should be.
In the machine who pressed the head stamp was the wrong bunter.

Regards
Dutch