7,9x57mm "Z St 34 42"

How come I encounter “dou” more frequently than “Z”? Factory size?
scan0091

Vlad - because the “dou.” headstamped ammunition was intended for the German Wermacht (and perhaps its close allies). The “Z” headstamp was primarily a contract for Sweden, a neutral country. Since the codes like “dou.” were designed to hide the manufacturer of military items, it would no do to send that ammo to a neutral country that, of course, knew who they were buying it from, through one way or another. The “Z” headstamp also is found on 9 x 19 mm Para, by the way.

I suspect these contracts were a “quid pro quo” situation, a trade for other materials. I don’t know why Sweden would have any huge need to buy ammo from Occupied Czechoslovakia when they had a very well-developed and prolific ammunition industry of their own in the war years. I am not raising a question about the correctness of the information of this ammo going to Sweden; this cartridge is covered on a Swedish Ammunition Chart that I have, and as I recall, there are Swedish-language boxes for these cartridges.

My comments are not intended to preclude that there were other users of cartridges so-headstamped. I simply only know for sure about the Swedish connection.

John Moss

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Thanks. After postng, I found my own old thread about this very round 7.92x57 "Z St 34 42"

The export to Sweden was made with Czech made cn bullets.

The OKH stopped the export because they need the ammo themselves.

The “left over” cases were used for German ammunition made with German bullets.

Your head stamp (lot 34) is a part of this ammunition made for the Germans.

I can show you the label belonging to your round.

Rgds

dou 43-1 SmE (Z) Für MG

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Dutch - great info. Great box label. Thanks for posting. Hope all is well with you and yours.

I do wonder at the fact that they show the “Z” on the label followed by “(dou.”) . Since the Z headstamp was likely well known before WW2, so much for the “secret” code “dou.”

We see the same thing in late Walther PP Pistols. No markings on the left side of the slide, and “ac” code on the right side - again, a secret code. The grips were often very poorly checkered wood with, lo and behold, the Walther Banner trademark pressed into the top of the grips on each side. One must wonder about the mentality displayed in these cases. I am sure there are other examples.

John

John

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John, everywhere in the world the people working in the security field have a sort of concrete block mentality. I know, because once I was one of them.
It could have been that someone thought, everyone knows where the Walther PP is made and it is not produced elswhere (unlike P38). Showing our secret ac factory code on them in effect gives away the meaning of this code.
But the he would have to explain this to a lot of security people, starting at the Abwehrbeauftragter of the Walther factory, right up the ladder to Heereswaffenamt and Wehrmacht Abwehr. Doing something against security regulations? Unthinkable! Nobody in his right mind would make a futile attempt to explain the mistake of putting ac on a Walther PP. You would never convince them and quite probably get a black mark on your file.
In this environment, it is more healthy to accept that the meaning of ac is compromized to the enemy than trying to avoid this by some unconventional action, asking concrete blocks to be flexible. While the personal danger is not comparable by any means, this is as valid today as it was in WW2 Germany.

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Peelen - Amen to that. It isn’t just in Germany or in military establishments either. In my 80 years, and with nine years active and active reserve with the Army along with two years Civil Service, as well as other civilian jobs, I have seen enough of the “concrete block” mentality. Actually, I encountered it as much if not more in civilian life than I did in the military, where I was a lower level enlisted man (leaving the service as a Staff Sergeant). We have plenty of that mentality, or the lack of mental acuity I should say, in our own country. Actually, in the Active Army Reserve, I was privileged to be in two highly professional units, one a Military School Unit and the other a Military Police Crime Lab Unit. The thought processes worked just fine with the people I served with there. A breath of fresh air.

Otherwise, “la solità burocratzia.”

John

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