7 x 57mm box


#1

7 x 57mm box with APT rounds.

All I can figure out is it was originally loaded by HP, as the headstamp indicate such, along with the original round paper string seal with the orange and blue circles with HP in white in the middle. The necks look to have been re-crimped at one time and the projectiles look to have been pulled. The original box top label I cannot decipher “Cartoucherie, Dordrecht.” as “Cartoucherie” was a French munitions and powder works before it was converted into a theatrical center in 1970. “Dordrecht” is a town in Holland I think?

Joe

Edit: Hirtenberger Patronen factory in Dordrecht, Netherlands. Ok, so then why the “Cartoucherie, Dordrecht.”?








#2

Joe, you can find more information in this post: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=14216


#3

Fede,

Yes, thanks.

Still wondering why the original label has “Cartoucherie, Dordrecht.” printed on it?

Joe


#4

The Use of French (Cartoucherie) was common in Europe back in the 1920s-30s (even Before) on Export ammo from companies with Germanic or other Language origins. French was THE International Diplomatic Language up to the Second World War. Eg, The Greeks called their Ammo Factory “Cartoucherie et Poudrerie Hellenique” on all their export cartridges.

Also, in Holland and Belgium, French is commonly used (By the Walloons in Belgium, and by Southern Dutch); The Northeners of Both Countries Speak Vlamminge (Flemish) the Belgian variety being slightly different from Proper Dutch. A relic of Centuries of French domination ( up to Napoleon) of the Low Countries along with Spanish occupation.

In any case, this packet was destined either to Spain (Cartuchos) or Spanish Latin America.

The Dordrecht Factory was set up by HP to allow access to Foreign Contract after WW I for the Austrian-Based company. Dordrecht supplied the Netherlands, and many other former clients of HP and Keller & Co, and G.Roth, etc from before WW I. By 1928, HP was able to supply Turkey directly with 7,9mm ammo, avoiding the Embargo due to the WW I Treaties.

Doc AV


#5

Thanks Doc. Done more research on the word “Cartoucherie”. It seems to stem from the 1880’s. Simply meaning cartridge factory. So like you say, even before 1920’s. A term that has seemed to fade away with time.

Joe


#6

Due to my slow Upload (64kbps) at present, I didn’t see the "Recargados "Label.

Originally Loaded (Manufactured) 1927,

Re-charged with spheroidal (“Ball”) Powder after 1972 ( actual confection date May, 1973).

“Re-priming” (re-capping)_ and “Re-charging” was a common practice with early Powders which had a shorter shelf compared to BP, and the initial cost of special ammo was so high that “re-manufacture” was an economically viable method of conserving ammo. The Practice died off in major Powers after WW I, given the low cost and huge quantities made; only relatively “poor” countries continued both re-loading and re-manufacturing ammo up to WW II. Given that this 7mm AP-T would have been hard to acquire New after WW II, this country (Most Probably one of the Poorer Latin American countries, ) decided to "re-manufacture " them with (??Olin patent??) Ball Powder?). Maybe “P.R.B” may indicate the supplier (? Poudrerie Royale Belge?).

Nice Find. Any idea which Latin republic these come from?

Doc AV


#7

Chile…

There is a previous topic on this subject…search for HP 1927 and go to page 5…

Randy


#8

And of course we did have that very interesting thread recently concerning the .303 AP bullets the French (it would appear) pulled in the 1930s from their own no-longer-needed aircraft grade “7.7 m/m” ammo, which bullets eventually found their way to Finland, where the canny locals repurposed them for 7.62 m/m reloads just in time for the Winter War. Jack