.70-150 Winchester


#1

I recently came across a cartridge that I think may be an original .70-150, but maybe not, and I’d appreciate some help deciding yes or no. The cartridge does not have the look of the typical repro to me. The bottleneck in the case is smooth and consistent, as is the mouth crimp; very nice. The .22 blank in the nose with raised X headstamp looks good, as does the base with raised ring and no headstamp. In Cartridges, Logan shows and describes one of these on page 154, and this round’s dimensions match Logan’s. This round is a “thin rim” version like the one Logan shows.

I have owned an original “thick rim” display board dummy, and the first question is whether there is such a thing as an original live thin rim version of the .70-150. Because it seems that there was at least one rifle made in the caliber (a modified lever action shotgun), it makes sense that live cartridges did exist. But is this one of them? There are two differences between this round and Logan’s; my primer does not have a circled W and the X on the blank in the nose does not have a circle around it. I’ll have it at SLICS, so you can look it over and offer your expert opinion. Thanks.


#2

Where did you get the information that Winchester made a thin rimmed version, because a rifle was made?

Why would Winchester go to the bother of making a thick rimmed shell that would not function in a normal 12 bore & then go make thin rimmed one to shoot in a modified L.A. 12 bore? If they were going to test the rifle why not test it with the new shell too?

They most likely made the thick rim because of the high pressure & these thin rim heads with the thin web might not support the pressure.
This is an other thin rim variation, must be at the least a half-dozen variations made off these ringed-head brass shells.

Why would they use a different bullet that those found with the dummies? My thick rim dummy has a typical raised X on the copper tube so that is correct. No circle around the X & the primer is unmarked.

I really don’t think there is such an animal as a real Winchester .70-150 thin rim.

Also that’s not a .22 rimfire blank in the nose but an empty copper tube closed at one end, a typical Winchester Express tube with a raised X.

My 2¢ as I have the exact same shell as this & I bought it years ago from a Mr. John Scott for about $12.50. That ought to be proof enough right there.


#3

The only help I can give is that most of the Repros were made from WINCHESTER No 12 brass shot shells this one is not.


#4

Pete, Thanks for the info and opinion. I didn’t know about the express tube thing. For the last 40 years or so, I’ve heard stories about the 70-150, as we all have, and many of those involve a gun. In 1948 Herschel Logan drew a 70-150 for an illustration in his book, and that cartridge is a thin rim. I doubt that in 1948 there was much of a business in fake cartridges like there is now, so I assume (dangerous, I know) that Logan used a real cartridge for his book, but I have no way of knowing that for sure.


#5

Point well taken Mel.