7x52R Dreyse

Does anyone know in what kind of gun was 7x52R Dreyse used and when was it developed?

I can’t really help about the weapon it was used in but can offer some info re it’s likely date of production.

The only hs that I am aware of for the 7x52R “Dreyse” is the "RM * S * " which should be from the c1901-1910 period.

Where it got the “Dreyse” term is an interesting topic. This hs of RHEINISCHE METALLWAREN UND MASCHINENFABRIK AG Dusseldorf ABT SÖMMERDA is post Dreyse and even if it’s predecessor
MUNITIONS UND WAFFENFABRIKEN, SÖMMERDA (M&W-S) produced it (likely with “M&W SOEMMERDA” or " M W * S * " hs) then it could date as early as 1899 but still not be “Dreyse”.

If produced earlier than this by Dreyse then is could be considered a “Dreyse” calibre but to confirm this it would need an example with “Dreyse” hs or a Dreyse catalog listing to confirm for sure. Neither of which exists that I know of (??). If an example with no hs existed, could also point towards production by Dreyse which were often produced by Dreyse for smaller flat head cases.

Maybe someone else can provide extra info ?

When Rheinmetall bought the old Nikolaus Dreyse rifle (former needle-gun) factory from his son Franz, it also aquired the rights to using Dreyse as a brand name. Examples are the Dreyse automatic pistol and the Dreyse machine gun, which came much later and had no connection to anyone named Dreyse. This is the factory that used “H” (Hörde) for German military ammunition and “RM” for other cartridges, as well as “Rh.S.” on countless fuzes.

Independent of the Dreyse rifle factory, (much older and surviving until 1945) there existed Dreyse & Collenbusch in Sömmerda, producing percussion primers and other sorts of stamped metal products. The Dreyse/Collenbusch/Kronbiegel family was co-owner of it. Under the new name Selve-Kronbiegel-Dornheim it became probably the largest manufacturer of primers in Germany before WW2.

JPeelen: could you explain Hoerde [I can’t convince my computer to do Umlauts]? The reference is new to me. Much appreciated. Jack

Jack,

If you are using Microsoft Word go to Home>Insert>Symbol>More Symbols>Special Characters>Subset, and scroll down. Maybe look in “Greek & Coptic” first.
Once you can get it once, you may be able to cut and paste the character when required.

Cheers
John

Jack,

The RHEINISCHE METALLWAREN UND MASCHINENFABRIK AG was first in Hörde.
This is now a part of the city of Dortmund.
The code on the head stamp was the first character from the city they were. (H)

Before starting the production the factory moved to the city Düsseldorf.
They keep the character “H” as the factory marking.

Dutch, some details are different.

Originally, it was “Hörder Bergwerks- und Hüttenverein” steel works in Hörde (as you write, today part of Dortmund) which got a military contract for several million Patrone 88 projectiles. Then the management changed its mind, realizing that small arms bullets were not the right product for a mining and smelting company. Somehow engineer Heinrich Erhardt was on good terms with Hörde’s director Massenet, and the contract was transferred to Erhardt.

On May 7th, 1889 Erhardt founded “Rheinische Metallwaaren und Maschinenfabrik” in Düsseldorf (in short: Rheinmetall), which started business by fulfilling that contract, originally granted to Hörde. This is why Rheinmetall used “H” on German military contracts, and jacketed round nose bullets were its first product.

@JPeelen

Thank you for the detailed clarifications.

Kind regards
Dutch

I did not spell the name of Hörde’s director correctly. Instead of Massenet please read Joseph Massenez.

JPeelen and Dutch: Thanks much for your responses and information. I found the city but could see no reasonable way it might be associated with this particular story line. It is a complicated story! Jack