7x57 DWM exercise cartridges


#1

I was looking through some old Deutsche Waffen Journals today and in the January 1993 edition I happened across a page listing various 7x57 DWM cartridges. There has been added to the list a case No. 380M3 which is listed as “Spanien Exerzeierpatr. m. 6 Langs-rillen”.

I’ve never seen one of these, are they uncommon?

Happy collecting, Peter


#2

Peter

I don’t have any of the 7x57mm exercise cartridges with a DWM headstamp but I do have some with DM headstamps that match the description of your post. These can’t be scarce since I have 6 of them!!


#3

DM and DWM are the same company. A short flashlight to the history:
The Deutsche Metallpatronenfabrik Lorenz (DM) was founded 1878 by Leopold Holtz and Wilhelm Lorenz. 1889 it became a stock corporation (in german ‘Aktiengesellschaft’, short ‘AG’). In 1896 they renamed to Deutsche Waffen- und Munitionsfabrik AG (DWM).


#4

Phil,

Thank you for the pictures confirming the existence of these cartridges. I suppose that makes them "scarce in the UK’.

I’ve got one exercise cartridge marked ‘DWM K’ which has a nickled case and round nosed head, a struck primer and the regular 3 knurles around the case.

Happy collecting, Peter


#5

I also have a couple of these rounds. Mine have Austrian and Chilean headstamps and I’d always assumed that they had been made by those two countries independantly of each other. I’d also assumed that the similarity in the fluting and unusual bullet crimping was just coincidental but having seen your rounds Phil I’d now suggest that all three were made by the same manufacturer.


#6

From the crimp shape alone, I would say that the K & C headstamp and the F.M.G. headstamped rounds were not made by D.W.M. The neck crimps are a different shape. Further, on my screen, the date on the F.M.G. round looks like it is from the early 1950s, perhaps 1952 or 1953. It is hard to read on my screen because of abberations right over the bottom of the date. If it is from the 1950s, we can rule out manufacture by either Keller & Company or DWM. However, it is bottom that both of the two, the K&C and the FMG, were made into dummies from fired cases at the same factory, perhaps at F.M.G. Those factories don’t throw much away and it is not at all impossible that they had brass even as old as the K&C round in their storage bins waiting for some use or another. The neck crimps (just above the shoulder) are oddly positioned anyway, and so identical in the two, that I would agree they were made into dummies at the same factory, although probably not originally manufactured by the same one, due to what appears to be a very wide date discrepancy, again as view on my screen.

With dummy and blank ammunition expecially, there is never any guarantee, without added information, that the cartridge is as it left the original factory headstamping the case. Of course, sometimes the headstamp also is no guarantee of where the case was made. Well-known headstamps for Perú and Honduras in 7 mm Mauser caliber were made in Mexico, for example. That would not be true in the case of the Keller & Company headstamp, however, to the best of my knowledge. I would say the case as originally made was their product. I am just not sure about the form in which it “was originally made.”

Please confirm the date on the Chilean cartridge.

John Moss


#7

The Chilean round is dated 1952.


#8

Would “Spanien Exercierpatr. m.6 Langs-rillen” translate as ‘Spanish Dummy with 6 long grooves’?


#9

Jim, almost. It would be “Spain, dummy with 6 lengthwise grooves”.


#10

I believe all those long fluted 7x57 dummies were made in Chile, regardless of headstamp. Lots of them, along with a number of variations of blanks, came out of Chile a few years back.


#11

There is still the entry in the DWM case listing to take into account. I presume that, to be in the list, the exercise cartridge would have been made by DWM for the Spanish. I don’t think it likely that news of a Spanish made exercise cartridge would have prompted an addition to the list. In a way the mention of South American made cartridges to roughly the same specification as the DWM one is a distraction.

At what point in time would it have been likely that Spain was still sourcing 7x57 from a German supplier, rather from their own cartridge producers? Is there an indication of the cut off point when the DWM list stopped having additions made to it? Was this before or after the First World War?

The two German marked 7x57 exercise rounds in my little collection both have the three knurled rings around the case body. All the South American marked ones only have two knurled rings.

Happy collecting, Peter


#12

Peter - not sure I understand something you said, about not likely DWM would have added that dummy round to the list upon “news” about it (I am paraphrasing). The DWM list was a manufacturing log, not simply a historical accounting of everything DWM made. In fact, it is likely that some items in the log were never made, just considered for manufacture. It likely was added to the list when they decided to make them.

I agree with Jon about the two rounds, K&C and FMG, being made into dummy rounds in Chile, with the latter probabably made there. Of course, dated in the 1950s, DWM manufacture is completely ruled out. As for the Chilean rounds being similar to the early DWM, why not? DWM ammunition was all over the world, regardless of for whom the first run of those dummies might have been, and perhaps they simply liked the pattern. The DWM pattern of a nickeled dummy with three knurled rings was copies in Portugal, likely after WWII from some of the dates seen on the 8 x 57 mm Mauser rounds they copied. Fluted dummies of one sort or another were used all over the world in many calibers and from many makers, and in fact, in 7.9 x 57 mm, the Germans used them in several different patterns.

John Moss