Has anyone heard of this case type, apparently for the M.N. rifle.
Has anyone heard of this case type, apparently for the M.N. rifle.
that cartridge has several names:
8,2x66R, and also 8,4x66R, as the actual bullet diameter is 8,45mm.
In a russian paper it is named 8,2mm.
I have attached some photos…
In the Book cartrdige cases by Andresen,Andersen and Stromstad it is index SAA #4625
The blue tipped dummy round is a proof round by the russian proofhouse. That means, it is not “dead” and ammo is still occassionally made, but it is scarce in the west…
Here is some more data from a russian book.
I Show a cartridge with sn bullet and the second one with a lead bt.
Data is on the left side of each pic…
Pete, and here was a discussion before:
and here also:
Here are my updated notes on the 8.2x66SR (SV9 in European Sporting Cartridges).:
Russia produced two sporting calibers based on a unique semi-rimmed (non military) case design with a 13.15mm base, 12.35mm groove and 14.3mm rim. This case appears originally to have been derived from a combination of the 7.62x54R Mosin-Nagant case (SV14) and the 10.66x57R Russian Berdan. It uses the same rim dimension as the 7.62x54R and the base of the 7.62x54R is the same as the groove on the 8.2x66R. However, the base on these “KO” types has been enlarged to 13.15mm which is the same as the 10.66x57R Russian Berdan cartridge. This would allow Mosin-Nagant Rifles to be re-chambered for this larger diameter case and obviously allow a greater powder charge for a given case length producing higher performance.
The 8.2x66R is the earlier and commoner of the two KO calibers (see also the 9x64 SV10) and was intended for use in the bolt action KO-8.2 Hunting Carbine (which was a converted military rifle). Note : K = Karabin (Carbine) and O = Ochotnicij (‘Hunting’). Commonly, no hs are used on these cartridge cases but some post-war rounds (1953-1963) use a faint five-pointed star hs. Plain lead, SN and FMJ bullets are all known loaded in this case (see images).
There is mixed information about when this was introduced and also whether it is still used (see notes below) but here is what is believed to be the history of this cartridge:
The 8,2x66R “KO” cartridge (also known as 8.2x66SR) was developed in 1931 by D.M. (Dmitry) Kochetov. This was purely a hunting cartridge and had a lead bullet with a velocity of 400 m/s. The carbine was manufactured at the Tula Arms Plant by 1941 both for the domestic market and for export to the Mongolian People’s Republic. The ammunition evidently was factory produced starting in 1936, . It is likely that it became a “Government Issue Hunter’s Rifle” for use in Siberia for large game (Bear and Elk and Sheep) hunting. However, it was not very successful because of its low muzzle velocity and the poor penetration of the bullet. During WW2 there were hunting rifles for the armed militias. The cartridge was produced from 1936-1963, used a plain Lead bullet and the hs was a five-pointed star…
In 1946 after WW2 ended, the Izhevsk Machine-Building Plant produced the KO-8, 2 “Moose” hunting rifle. In 1962, this cartridge was modernized by Mikhail Blum and received the designation 8,2x66M (where ‘M’ stands for ‘modernised’). This cartridge used new powder with a new load and utilised either a SP bullet of 9,6 grams or a FMJ bullet of 9.5 g. As a result the muzzle velocity increased to 635 m/s. Production of weapons using this cartridge ceased in 1976 as the 308 Winchester was introduced into the USSR for hunting and 8x66 ammunition production ceased in 1978. The cartridge was produced from 1963-1978 used SP or FMJ bullets and had no hs.
- Badalik believed that this was introduced in 1953, others 1950’s or even 1930’s but some evidence states that it may have been as early as 1946.
- There is also conjecture that this may have been the caliber for the HK-8.2 Rifle developed in the 1930’s by D.M. Kocetov. According to DocAv : “The initial 1930s development was for a Sniping rifle, and the action is a modified Mosin Action; by 1948, the Sniping part was dropped, and it became a “Government Issue Hunter’s Rifle” for use in outer Siberia for large game (Bear and Elk and Sheep) hunting.” However DocAv has also previously stated : “They were initially developed in the late 1930s as a dedicated hunting cartridge for Government-licensed meat and skin hunters in Siberia.”
According to a Russian website (translated) : Hunting carbine NK -8,2 under the cartridge of 8,2kh’’ mm : NK -8,2 - hunting carbine of the caliber of 8,2 mm the construction of D.M.Kochetova on the base of
mm rifle S.L.Mosin under the cartridge of 8,2kh’’ mm with the special case, which has cap without the flange and housing of the increased capacity. Was made in series at the Tula arms factory in 1931-1941 the planned long-range cartridge of large power so not it was released. Were sold only cartridges with the uncoated lead bullet." [ED : This could be another case type <> 8.2x53R SV3 ??.]
http://iaaforum.org/forum3/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=11988 originally from guns.ru
The correct transliteration to English Cyrillic of the Russian word shall be:
Thank you gentlemen.
Hi Wbd, you cited:
“Production of weapons using this cartridge ceased in 1976 as the 308 Winchester was introduced into the USSR for hunting and 8x66 ammunition production ceased in 1978. The cartridge was produced from 1963-1978 used SP or FMJ bullets and had no hs.”
But the proofround I showed in the pics above (with the blue tip) is quit new. I got it 2012 in the proofhouse at Klimovsk, and I do not think, the proofhouse is producing proofcartridges, if there are no more guns or if there is no cartridge production anymore.
Maybe some of our russian members can tell more.
EOD - thanks for the correction. I think that this was probably due to a Czech version of Russian converted to English. I will update my notes
Peter - that information came from translated Russian websites and it would be a few years old. It doesn’t preclude the possibility of production starting again. Clearly there is still a demand for such ammunition.
Such production stopping and starting again is quite common eg. Sako stopped and started producing the 7x33 at least three times over a 30 year period.
I will update my notes accordingly. Thanks for the info.
Very interesting thread. It was started by a guy I met at the L.V. Antique Arms show asking about a 8.2x66, for the M.N.Rifle & I said I’d not heard about it & further asked if it was a rimless round & he was absolutely positive it was rimless. I couldn’t quite grasp that, & now it seems it is semi-rimmed which does make sense.
I too have the same round that Peter shows & interesting that it was a HPT round.
Great stuff, thanks again gentlemen
WBD, it sounds like a Polish or Croatian or Bosnian transcription to me but in the end it does not matter.
Forensic, remember that also repaired weapons have to undergo a HPT test. Means a gun repaired today has to be tested with regarding HPT ammo. Here to my understanding then old production cases are used which are just newly loaded.
Since, the introduction of new powerful cartridge, carbines started going out of service quite rapidly. I still own one, but its ammo more expensive than 7.62x54r and not popular in Mongolia nowdays. Anyway, it is good to see this old rifle, which my grand dad was using.
Batyr, what ammo do you have for it?
8.02x 66. It is quite scarce and expensive. The first solid ammo is hard to find, but the last modified powerful ammo is not hard find.
Yes, I figured you are using this caliber but is that newly made ammunitiuon or old stocks?
Do you have images of the boxes maybe?
Both loadings of the cartridge presented by Peter below:
They’re becoming rare even in Russia what’s more difficult is to get them loaded our of RF.