8.38mm x 69

I’m looking for some info on the 8.38mm x 69 and 63 mm case length Flechette cartridge, was this a US development for the SPIW system or something else, who made the cartridges and are there a lot of variations

I have an aluminium-alloy cased Amron Aerojet .330 triple flechette round in my collection (on the far right of this group, the rest being a 5.56x45 on the left and various SPIW rounds in between). However, I don’t know anything about its development history.

I just looked through the SPIW book and I didn’t see any mention of the 8.38x69, although they do briefly discuss the Winchester 9.53x76 multi-flechette round. Perhaps it wasn’t part of SPIW, but I don’t have any definitive info.

I have a live and a dummy 8.38x69 in my collection, both with the typical green aluminum case. There was a brass draw set for this round in an early Buttweiler auction, so apparently they were also made with brass cases.

Sorry I don’t have more info!

I believe that the development of the 8.38x69 (aka .330 Amron) was post-SPIW, but don’t have any specific information.

As for variations, most are aluminum cased with different finishes. The are also single flechette and proof loads. The most common load is one with 4 flechettes. The brass cased round with brass bullet is a proof. The darkest finished round is a factory dummy with no primer.

This cartridge was designed in 1969 and used as an experimental caliber level of .330 inch. with ballistic parameters centered on a multiple flechette payload for use in a Special Purpose Individual Weapon (SPIW). Official Frankford Arsenal designation for this cartridge was “8,38 mm Multiple Flechette Puller Sabot Cartridge”. It was directly related to a “Folded” cartridge and weapon system tested in this caliber. A .338 Winchester Magnum (8,38 x 64 B) case was also tried with same payload.

A .330 Hugues Lockless “Chicklet” cartridge was also tested but I’m not sure if belong to the same tests.

Here is picture of a board at Woodin Lab. Althought dated 1972, 9,53mm rounds are dated 1969 and 1970, so the board is not entirely contemporary.


Fede, I think the Hughes .330 Chicklett you are referring to was tested sometime later - in the early phases of the AIWS (Advanced Infantry Weapon System) of the early 1980’s.

I’m not familiar with a .330/8.38mm folded round.


Hello Paul,

Wonderful picture! There is another similar FA board dated 1970. I also have a picture of an Amron Ordnance and Manufacturing Company box dated April 1971.

The .330 Folded round is mentioned as “designed, fabricated and tested” in an study by famous Andy J. Grandy titled “A New Concept for the SPIW” (Frankford Arsenal Progress Report No. I, October, 1969). I’m not aware of any surviving examples.

Do you have any AIWS program related document were the Hughes “chicket” rounds are mentioned? All my information about any caliber variation of these series is dated starting 1969 to early 1970’s.



There is another cartridge that I think fits in here someplace. Does anyone know anything about this one 8 x 38 with a 63mm case with a belted rim

Carolyn - “…8 x 38 with a 63 mm case…”

Wouldn’t an 8 x 38 cartridge have a 38 mm case length? Otherwise, what would be the significance of the second number in “8 x 38?”

Just trying to clarify this.

Are you referring to the 9,53 x 63 B Multiple Flechette round based on the .30-06 case?

My mistake I copied the numbers from another site as I’m not familar with the cartridge. They should have been written 8.38x69 and 8.38x63. The one with the 63 mm case was the one I"m asking about now, it has a belted rim.

Hello from Russia!
Does anybody have an idea, how to disassemble this cartridge without distruction of the case and sabot? Sabot and flechets are to light, and inertia bullet puller dosent work