8 x 54mm R Lee Nagant


#1

I recently bought the cartridge shown. It has written on it 8 x 54R Lee Nagant. Is this correct? I can’t find any information on such a cartridge in my references.

Thanks

Ian


#2

It could be a sporting round developed from the 7,62 x 54R like the 8,2 x 53R Lapua


#3

Remington and Nagant Freres of Liege had a long Patent licence agreement going back to 1870 or earlier, for the manufacture in Europe, of Remington Rolling Black rifles and accessories.

Remington Lee was the designation of the relationship between Remington and JP Lee, inventor of a Bolt action rifle which Remington manufactutred from the late 1870s, in various models, one of which was selected by Britain for its new small calibre rifle, and became the Lee Metford of 1889.

Remington and Nagant also collaborated on the development of a Military cartridge, for a possible Lee design rifle, based on the M1884-5 Rem-Lees, for use with a new cartridge being developed by Nagant, for its rifle design of 1890.
This cartridge derived from the M88/90 Austrian 8x53R Semi-smokeless Load being used at the time by the Austrians in their M88/90 Mannlichers.

Nagant used this 8x54R cartridge in its various 1890 model bolt action rifles it was offering the Russians.
Mosin, of the Russian Artillery Service, took some of the features of Nagant’s rfile, and combined them with ideas of his own, and the M1891 “Mosin-Nagant” was the result. But the cartridge for this Russian Rifle was “3 linie” ( Russian measurement equivalent to 3/10ths of an Inch) which in metric Terms was “7,62mm” (.300")…To the semiliterate Russian Peasants who formed the major part of the Tsarist Armies, a calibre like “3 linie” was simple to remember, and the well designed cartridge was also efficient with the Powders of the time. The Bullet was a 210 grain RN, with a diameter of .310", and utilised the “Bore ride” principle, first developed by the Swiss experimenters (Hebler, Lorenz and Rubin), for using Long, cylindrical Bullets with steel or CuproNickel jackets, and adopted by the french, Austrians, Portuguese, and even the Siamese in their respective “8mm” calibres of the 1886-1905 period.

So the 8x54R Rem.Lee Nagant was the precursor of the 7,62x54R M91 cartridge, and also of the very similar Finnish Wildcat, 8x53R, used for civilian Hunting

(Note that Finland, nominates the Russian cartridge 7,62x53R, and all its wildcat derivatives used for Hunting are “8x53R,6,5x53R etc”).

Finding a cartridge (obviously made by Remington) in this obscure calibre( Nagant’s rifle was not a commercial success, as Nagant was also a founding Partner in “FN”,and the Nagant M1890 rifle just faded away, as did the relationship between Nagant and Remington…Remington later in the 90s developed a commercial relationship with FN throuigh JM Browning, so that Browning’s sporting designs were made in the USA by Remington, and FN in Europe.
Rgerads,
Doc AV.


#4

What is the headstamp?


#5

Pivi and Doc AV thanks for your replies. John I should have said in my post that there is no H/S on the round.

Thanks

Ian


#6

Is there any relationship between this round(8mm Lee Nagant) and the 236 Remington? The 236 looks like it could be a necked down 7.62 MN. There seems to be an association between Rem and Nagant.


#7

I looked at my Hoyem copy after reading Doc’s post.There is pictured a very similar cartridge,described as an experimental one developed from 10,66 x 57 R Berdan round


#8

Pivi, this one is the Rogovtsev cartridge which was the first Russian design for a small calibre follow up of the 4.2-line Berdan cartridge (10.67x57R).


#9

[quote=“ian jones”]Pivi and Doc AV thanks for your replies. John I should have said in my post that there is no H/S on the round.

Thanks

Ian[/quote]

Who is the manufacturer wit the “N” in the head stamp?