8MM headstamp ID


#1

i have the opportunity to pick up some APT 8mm for .50 cents/round
incinerary (with a block/purple tip). at $1.5/round
and AP FN 38 (green tip). at .50 cents/ round.
i have no idea what specialty rounds like this are worth but if this is an amazing price i might just pick them up.
Im not too knowledgeable about surplus ammo, especially oddball rounds like this. if anyone who knows what these might be and if the value is about right, i would greatly appreciate any insight you might have.
I noticed that many of the rounds have asimilar stamps on them, such as the APT and the mixed lot of ammo i [img]have a boatload of. if annyone could shed insight on what the headstamps mean i would greatly appreciate it as i am not that knowledgable about older surplus ammo.
thanks
APT, incinerary and AP is the first 2 photos, the rest are an assortment from my mixed german wwII 8mm






#2

I don’t do values, but can tell you that none of the rounds you show are particularly scarce.

The headstamps mean:

P S* 177(?) 36 - Polte, Werk Magdeburg, made the case. You cannot tell who loaded the round without the original box label. S* indicates the case is brass of an alloy of 72% copper (allowable content from 71% to 74%). The number 177, (if I am reading it right) is the manufacturing lot number of the case, Lot 177. The 36 is the year of manufacture of the case. It does not guarantee the case was loaded in that year. The red primer seal indicates armor piercing and with the added black tip, AP-Tracer. While not always true, it is likely in this particular instance that the round was loaded by Polte in 1936, as some would gather (erroneously) from the headstamp.
German headstamps of this era and style only apply to the case manufacture, not the load, loading factory, date it was loaded, bullet maker or date, primer maker or date, or powder maker or date.

F N 38 - made by Fabrique Nationale d’Armes de Guerre, Herstal, Belgium, in 1938. The green tip is the identification for AP. Ball rounds also have a green seal, normally, but not the green tip, of course.

K44 BIIZ - Made by Kynoch in 1944, as an Incendiary round (B) Mark II load with nitrocellulose (Z) powder. The primer seal should be blue, and sometimes they have a blue tip as well. In your photo the seal looks purple. If it really is, it is a ball round loaded on a case originally intended to be loaded as an incendiary. I have a couple of examples of British 7.9 rounds loaded differently than the headstamp would indicate, but don’t recall seeing that one, so probably the color just came across as purple on the computer screen.


#3

Don’t expect the APT to trace if you are planning on shooting any of it. The AP core is pretty small too, so don’t expect great things from it. Values are subjective, but in my humble opinion, the AP and APT are priced about OK but the incendiary is too expensive. If you are looking to by a lot of this ammo for shooting purposes, I’d try to get the price down due to age and corrosive primers. If you just want a few for the collection, the prices are not out of line.

AKMS


#4

WOW, i really appreciate the detailed replies. where do you guys learn all of this?
I am going to be purchasing all tof the AP(a full 50 cal can full of it, around 500 rounds), and possibly the incinerary as it is indeed blue not purple. must be my camera.
im hoping he will come down a bit on price if i buy all the AP and incinerary.

from what has been said, if it has a red stripe on the primer, it is AP, and blue means its incinerary?
the lower pictures i posted are from a mixed lot that i have a few thousand rounds of, but would really like to spend some time segregating them. if i can do it bia color on the headstamp, it would really speed up that process, as the stamps look very asimilar to me and would take a long time to sort based on the stampings, atleast for me.
thanks again for all the info.


#5

“Par” - don’t confuse a red primer seal (a circular band of red colored lacquer around the perimeter of the primer) with a red stripe across the primer. The latter was an early German marking for an incendiary cartridge in this caliber. They are two completely different things! Most of the incendiary marking stripes are a reddish-orange in color, or at least that is the way I would describe the color. they are a straight line right across the head of the cartridge. confusion comes in when either the paint used is worn off, or did not take well, in which case it can range from looking like an all-red primer to actually appearing to be a sloppy primer seal. Experience tells the difference.


#6

thanks for the heads up.
what about the green stripe like in the last photo i posted?
does that indicate AP like a green painted tip does?
sorry for playing 20 questions but it blows my mind how to read these stamps and understand what they mean. well i guess it would not be that hard if there was some sort of website with a photo of the round and a description of it, but all i have seen are text based sites that explain the headstamps and their signifigance
thanks again for the help and information


#7

The green stripe indicate it is a lS (leichtes Spitzgeschoss)
It is a short range with an aluminium core.


#8

is the short range aluminum core unaminous for the green stripe and green primer sealer?
i have a bunch with the primer sealer in green and red color much like the ones i posted on the last and second to last phoros of my original post.
is there such a site that has photos of the headstamps and information regarding the round? i hate to be a pest and ask tons of questions if there is somewhere i can read up on the surplus 8mm i have on hand.
thanks


#9

Hello par0thead151,
These websites may be useful to you. I have found them to be invaluable.

mausershooters.org/k98k/8_ident.html
home.scarlet.be/p.colmant/792color.htm

BTW- The FN, green tip, AP is good stuff. I think fifty cents per round is not bad as long as it is in good shape. I have bought, and shot, some for about that same price and would gladly buy more if I had a source for it.


#10

what would be a fair value for 200-250 rounds of the incinerary?
i think i will be picking up the FN AP and incinerary if he budges a little on price.