8mm K. (blank) "Walther" brand, who made it?


#1

I just came across this 8mm K. (blank firing) cartridge & box of very recent production (should be 2017).

The only markings are “Walther” (here an UMAREX brand for their blank firing guns & ammo) but the whole box has no other company ID than the “Walther”.
The CIP certification is Hungarian as we have often seen from ammo from former Yugoslavia.
We know that Pobjeda (Bosnia) once was a supplier for the Walther brand but to what I was told these ties broke up some time ago.

I remember that it was elsewhere noticed that S&B is now supplying UMAREX with the Walther branded cartridges.

Can anybody give a positive ID on the shown ones?

The hs image from my scanner is not the best but it is correctly repeated on the box.


IMG_0007a


#2

I do not have a 100% positive ID, but I think you are correct with UMARIX. Please see the following website:
http://www.umarex.com/products/blank-firing-guns/ammunition.html

Also, at the bottom of their page, there is the 9mm P.A. Stop Blitz Blank cartridges with both names of Walther & UMARIX on the container:
http://www.umarex.com/products/blank-firing-guns/ammunition/4.1488.html

I hope this is of assistance.

(Edit to add: I just sent Walther Arms an email asking about their brass… If/when I hear back from them, I will let you know)

Regards,
Dave.


#3

Dave, UMAREX is only the trade house. Walther itself is not related to this as they just gave the permit to UMAREX to use their logo in marketing.

My question is on who actually made the ammo as it is not UMAREX since they never made any ammo and just do order it from 3rd parties which was Pobjeda in the past and could be S&B today.


#4

Alex,

Walther had not to give permission…
They where bought from Umarex some years ago, and with that, all their trademarks + logos a.s.o. are now in the possession of Wulf Pflaumer and sons, the owners of UMAREX.
The license to use brandnames by Umarex where only given for example by S&W and Colt, to use this names on the blankfiring guns, made, or distributed by Umarex.
They also had RECK, and also bought well named blankfiring gun maker RÖHM (only the gunpart, not the toolmaking plant), which was more or less the only quality blank guns on the market here…
Its a shame, but if you look on the markets, all are merging, and mostly not for the best of the customers…
Well known airgun maker Weihrauch was bought from GSG a.s.o.

Peter

Peter


#5

Peter, thanks for the background!
I was not aware that UMAREX is the big player in this game.


#6

Alex, I first observed these Walther brand boxes early in 2012 and this design is shown for the first time in the Umarex 2012 catalog as well (8 mm plastic round box and 9 mm in carton):

There are several variants of the carton box in both 8 mm K and 9 mm PA, all having different versions of the Hungarian proof house logo, except for the latest 9 mm PA that shows the Mellrichstadt logo. Except for the latter, all of them, in both calibers, look like products of Pobjeda, and some boxes imported by Umarex USA have an extral label indicating “Made in Bosnia-Herzegovina”.

6

Regarding S&B, they have made Walther brand 6 mm blanks, but nothing else. In fact, as far as I know this company never made the 8 mm K cartridge at all.

Regards,

Fede


#7

This is great info!

Did you notice that on the boxes the hs are illustrated differently?
Like:
“Walther” on the 8mm K
and
"WALTHER" in the 9mm PAK

Do you happen to have seen the 9mm PAK hs in reality and can tell what it is like?

So is Pobjeda still supplying UMAREX then?

And speaking of S&B and the 6mm, do you happen to know what the hs is? Are the boxes known maybe?
I already wondered about 8mm K being made by S&B.


#8

Yes, the correct designation of the 8 mm is simply “8 mm K” because there aren’t rimmed variants for revolvers, although “8 mm PAK” is sometimes used by some Turkish companies. The 9 mm PAK headstamp found in these boxes is “Walther 9mm PAK” (without dots), except for those found in German proofed boxes that are headstamped “Walther · 9mm P.A. Knall”.

Walther 9mm PAK

Knall

I don’t know, but given that the latest 9 mm PAK boxes are not longer proofed in Hungary but in Germany and they have a different headstamp, it is likely that they come from a different source.

Same headstamp as shown in the box:


#9

Fede, thanks for the 9mm PAK image!
I needed to clarify if the 9mm used bold letters or not as the box had shown it this way.