8mm Lebel Hollow Point?

I recently came across this 8mm Lebel hollow point. It looks like it has been in the case forever.

Has anyone else seen this? Sorry for the crappy pix!


image image

Looks like a Mle1886 Balle M
(Flat point for Lebel Tube Magazine) drilled out tomake a hunting Cartridge.?
Use in War banned in 1899 by Hague Convention.
Given 1898 date of case, Could be official development ( same as in Britain with .303 Mk II, (Special), Mk.III, IV & V, All soft or hollow points also banned in 1899.
Check with Phil Regenstrieff or other French RKIs.
Doc AV

It is a balle de stand Mod 1906
Cartouche de stand Modèle 1906.
Mise régulièrement en service dans la troupe et également livrée par les Etablissements de l’Artillerie aux sociétés de tir, cette munition possède un étui du modèle 1886 M montant une balle chemisée de maillechort modèle 1886 raccourcie de 1 mm et au méplat creusé d’une cavité tronconique sur une profondeur de 8,30 mm La charge est de 2,75 g de poudre BN.

Lors de l’avance allemande dans le nord de la France, les troupes impériales saisiront près de Lille une importante quantité de ces munitions, et les services de la propagande d’outre-Rhin en profiteront pour tenter aux USA une opération d’intimidation en voulant trouver là une preuve de l’emploi de balles Dum Dum par les alliés. Photos des spécimens et des emballages, accompagnés d’une lettre douloureusement indignée seront adressées à la presse et publiées, en particulier dans le Los Angeles Examiner du 18 octobre 1914.

Monsieur le consul Weidner aurait du mieux lire les inscriptions des dits emballages, mentionnant en toutes lettres la nature réelle de ces cartouches de stand.

this is a text from a French Magazine.
It explaines also, that the French consul had to explain the text on the box to an american newspaper in 1914, for which purpose it was used…and that it was not for combat, as reported beeing a Violation of the Hague Convention…


There are various sources that designate these bullets as expansive.
What is the shape of the hole?
Can it turn out to be this?

no way, you drawings show nothing in common with the Lebel, Balle de stand.
If you read the french text, you see how they where obtained by using normal fmj bullets, and transfered into balle de stand…

This is not visible in the photo, but in the “French text”, anything can be written.
The paper suffers.

Incendiary bullets for firing at airplanes in many countries received alterations of conventional obsolete bullets. Austria, Germany, Russia. I won’t be surprised if France is the same.

As said by Forensic, this is the DE STAND bullet, made from classic 1886 bullets for training in short closed ranges (“Stand de tir” in french). The text is a copy of a official french military regulation.

French tried several incendiary 8mm Lebel during WW1, but not with alteration of old bullets.

I also have a picture of a French expansive bullet redone from an old conventional one. But there is a hole in it of a different shape and less depth than in incendiary ones.
So I asked about the form of drilling.
If the diameter of the hole allows you to put a primer in it, and the volume is sufficient for a good pinch of gunpowder, I think it can be a lighter.


Here is the hole:

1 Like