8x57 Exerzier 1894


#1

Hello,

here is a chrome plated 8x57 Exerzierpatronen dated 3 1894. The case has three knurled cannelures (two identical and a third much thinner). The bullet jacket is empty.

The closest specimen I could find is featured in the book by Windisch-Kellner-Micke-Platzer “Von der Patrone 88 zur patrone S” at page 23. It is also chrome plated with three cannelures and hollow bullet jacket : headstamp is “DM 12 11 S”. That specimen is identified as “Exerzierpatrone für Maschinengewehre”

Is it safe to identify my 1894-dated specimen also as a machinegun dummy ? As the headstamp does not feature the three segments, I suppose it is a re-use of an old rifle case and loaded as MG dummy much after 1900 ?

Any comment would be welcome,

Cheers,

JFL


#2

Any comment ?

The projectile seems also chrome-plated whereas the other specimen described in the German book seems to have bare cupro-nickel projectile.

Cheers,

JFL


#3

The Ex. rounds I know from were all made by D.M.

Unfortunately I do know the exact date when this round was introduced, but the first known head stamp before yesterday was D.M. 07 99 . The last known is D.M. 03 15 S.
By seeing your early head stamp it is possible the round was made from old cases they found in the DM factory. If they were made from fired cases, this round could also be found with other manufacturing head stamps

Rgds
Dutch


#4

Dutch,

This round is also made by Krupp, Berndorf.

451kr.


#5

Is this a weighted dummy (same or similar to ball round)? Total lenght?


#6

Case and bullet are empty.
Same dimension as the M88 round.
Length 82.5mm weight 205grain.

451kr.


#7

If this was actually made by DM-K then its description match that of a dummy number 366H wich is pre-1896 (bullet jacket 117 - total lenght = M88).


#8

My 1894 specimen is 82,4mm long. I don’t have a scale to precisely measure the weight, but the case and the bullet jacket are empty.

The case neck does not show any crimp, or old crimp should that be a reused fired case.

The knurled cannelures seem to have been made after chrome-plating.

The chrome-plating seems to have been made on the complete round with the bullet in place.


#9

JFL, is there any possibility that your cartridge isn’t an 8mm x 57mm but a 7mm x 57mm? I’m not questioning your measuring abilities at all but I have a couple of very similar rounds in 7mm. Just a thought…


#10

I confirm that the 1894 dummy is a 8mm.

Interesting to see the 7x57 dummy also with 3 knurled cannelures. Can you check if your cannelures are the same as those on my dummy ? straight or angled lines ?

Thanks


#11

There are a few of them in my collection. Tree different types.

A non magnetic bullet, a magnetic bullet and a tombak colored bullet.

The head stamps are;
Non magnetic from July 1899 and March 1907
Magnetic bullet from December 1900, July 1905 and December 1911
Tombak bullet from January 1907

I have no idea when they were made.



#12

This then provokes a question: did not DM/DWM produce a similar dummy in 7.65 m/m caliber? I have the 7 m/m version produced by DM in 1895 and the 7.9 m/m type dated 12 11 (Dec. 1911). Jack


#13

A DM-K dummy in 7.65 x 54 mm Mauser caliber with three knurled cannelures and M. 89/90/91 bullet also exist. This is designated 367E1 (coreless jacket 118).

One of the rarest headstamps found in that caliber is 18 D. M. 91 KARLSRUHE and here in Argentina we are only aware of dummy specimens of that type (these were not made from fired cases). Ball cartridges actually existed but none are known today.

Strictly speaking of 7.65 x 54 mm Mauser, these M. 91 (367E1) dummies only exist with headstamps up to 1896 (18 D. M. 96 K. and 18 D. M. 96 F. y A.). This matches the company name change to DWM, althought DM-K headstamps are known to be still in use some years after.

Jim, may I suggest an small correction to your nice picture: DM-K is not “Deutsche Munitionsfabrik Karlsruhe” but “Deutsche Metallpatronenfabrik Karlsruhe”. You have a M. 93 dummy of the 380D1 type (coreless jacket 143, unweighted).


#14

Fede: Thanks for your response. I have the 7.65 m/m ball cartridge with the KARLSRUHE 1892 headstamp, but from your comments I now realize chances of finding one dated 1891 are less than slim! Jack


#15

I believe this was a standard form of DMK dummy round during the period covered in this thread. It is found on many rifle calibers. I am pretty sure I have seen it on pure sporting calibers, as well as military ones.


#16

Many military and sporting calibers were made by DWM this way. I can think of:

11,15 x 60 R Mauser
8 x 52 R Mannlicher M. 90
8 x 50 R Mannlicher M. 88
7,9 x 57 mm Patrone 88
7,9 x 57 mm Patrone S
7,65 x 54 mm Mauser
7,62 x 54 R Mosin-Nagant
7 x 57 mm Mauser
6,5 x 58 mm Mauser Portuguese
6,8 x 57 mm Mauser Chinese
6,8 x 60 mm Mauser Chinese
6,5 x 55 mm Krag & Mauser
6,5 x 53 R Mannlicher

.30 Model 1906

6,5 x 54 mm K
8 x 51 mm K
9 x 57 mm Mauser
9,3 x 62 mm Dornheim
10,75 x 68 mm Mauser

Maybe Brad Dixon can add some more.


#17

Fede’s list contains all the ones shown in the DWM case book. Not all of these may have been produced. Regarding sporting calibres. I have seen this dummy in 9.3x62 and 10.75x68 (-also 6.8x60 Chinese, 6.5x55 and 7.65x54).

I have not personally seen or can confirm the existance of DWM style dummies of the:
6,5 x 54 mm K
8 x 51 mm K
9 x 57 mm Mauser

The only other one that I can think of is the 6.5x54R Beaumont-Mauser (#392B) which has a “BMF 1892” hs but follows the DWM three case canellure pattern and was likely produced by DM-K.


#18

Hello Brad,

Specimens of at least two of those three sporting calibers actually exist:

8 x 51 mm K (K DWM K M88H. - case is not knurled)
9 x 57 mm Mauser (K DWM K 491A.)