I found this Danish 8x58 R Krag-Jorgensen “Pack” at the Show of Shows 2019. I have never seen a complete “Pack” like this and thought it might be of interest for some members. Head stamp is dated 1928.
Now for the wierd bit:
The pack as you show contains 30 cartridges in 3 brass holders, but the ammo pouch has space for 4 brass holders ie. 40 rounds.
Noone knows why that is!
chickenthief, Thank you, interesting information. So you can confirm this was to be issued to soldiers for them to put into their ammunition pouches on their belts. This is what I thought. Maybe, One reason that there are only 30 rounds would be the weight, two of these 30 round packs worn on each side of a soldier’s belt would be pretty heavy. Do you have a picture of this leather cartridge pouch?
From the early 1920’s it became custom to deliver cartridges 20 to the cardboard packet no brass incerts.
Chickenthief, thank you for the pictures. Yes I understand now. I also found some pictures showing this cartridge pouch, the Danish Model 1906. These pictures showed four rolls of cartridges packed in them, for a total of 40. This is what you explained.
For who were these cartridges made.
As far I recognise, these rounds were loaded in Jan. 13. 1942.
Denmark was occupied by the Germans.
And independetly armed till 1943 (with light weapons). Denmark hat a very own status amongst occupied countries - similar to “Free France” (the southern part).
Only in 1943 the Danish were fully disarmed after their resistance had started operations.
Krags were made (at the Arsenal and later DISA) for the germans during WWII. And many were “liberated” from the Arsenal .
Mostly for guard duty in the camps, so German K98k rifles could be freed up for the fighting forses.
Likewise 8x58RD ammo were made for German use (and 9mm).
Great pack George
Question, would the 30 round pack be used for loading Madsen Magazines?? (Rather than Rifleman use?)
There were no special loading for the MG’s as far as 8x58RD cartridges goes. All cartridges had to adhere to the max. 2600bar rule.
There were special loaded blanks to ensure reliable reloading of the MG’s, blue wood projectile and blue base.
This is a chart for smokeless powder recieved at the Arsenal from Frederiksværk Krudtværk.
In short it says that the middle/mean pressure must not exceed (severely) 2600bar and no single pressure must exceed 2800bar despite V25 being under par (750m/s)
What is the complete headstamp for the rounds?
I did not infer a special MG load, just a special pack to facilitate rapid MG magazine loading without extra loose rounds remaining. A system used by many countries from the introduction of MGs with fixed feed systems ( Hotchkiss strips, Madsen mags, etc.)
Eg, French Hotchkiss strips were 24 rounds, or refilled from
3 x 8 round Lebel rifle ammo packets; the US BAR had a 20 round magazine…Four M1903 stripper clips or One 20 round Packet of Cal .30 ammo.
The .303 Lewis Gun influenced the 48 round .303 packet ( 47 rounds to Lewis Pan, and two Packets to 97 round Air service Pan. (I know, a 1 cartridge disparity ( 1+ for 47 pan, 1- for 97 pan.
The Germans were similar…16 rounds 9mm, packet …2 x8 round Pistol mags, or 2 packets for 32 round Trommelmags (1918) or 32 round stick mags in late 1930s.Brit 32 and 64 round packets for 9mm Mk2z.
P.S. Hotchkiss export strips were 30 rounds…2x 15 round packets, 6x 5 rnd clips, or 3 x 20 round packets for 2 strips
(US M1909 Benet Mercier).
Nice how Packet design later affected MG mag capacity design and vice versa.
Denmark were so poor up to and during WWI most MG units were privately sponsored. Thus actual shooting with MG’s were rare and far between. Soldiers had ample time to load what they had to from normal packing.
So no specific MG ammo existed pre packed.
I am pretty sure the complete head stamp is: “V.I. 25” at 12oclock, “28” at 3oclock, “HL” at 6oclock and, finally, “19” at 9oclock. Thanks for your interest. I don’t know what the “V.I. 25” stands for. But, the “HL” is Hærens Laboratorium as printed on the cardboard cover to the pack. Thanks for your interest.