8x59mm Breda , Italian, Machine Gun Cartridge


#1

Good day to the IAA members, hope all are well.
We just did a new page on our web-site on this cartridge: 8x59mm Breda , Italian, Machine Gun Cartridge, as I don’t understand the Italian language any better then the English language, I may or may not of made some errors on the page ? So if you see any errors, please point them out to me and I will correct them. Thank you for your help.
Link to the Web-Page :
ammo-one.com/8mmBredaItalianMachinegun.html



Dave Call, A Call to Arms, LLC @ ammo-one.com/
Our 7th. year in business.


#2

Dave - very nice presentation! I won’t comment on the round itself, since I know little about it. Howwever, the location of the ammunition plant for BPD is “Colleferro”, not “Colleferre” Only a typo on the letter at the end of the name. Also, you ran off the line in a couple of areas with the word “Arsenal” showing up as “Arsena”. You might want to correct those. Too nice a page not to.


#3

Nice. I did not know there were lacquered steel cased variations of this cartidge. Is it just the picture, or is this a rebated-rim case?

AKMS


#4

You can add that the ball cartridges that you sell are of the 2nd type.
First type has a plain base.

Yes,the 8 mm breda has a rebated rim.Several loadings existed including AP,tracer,observation,blank,dummy ecc


#5
  1. Lacquered steel cases are scarcer than brass cases.
    The most encontered are plain bullet and white tip (AP)
  2. The bullet is bigger in diameter than the 8 Mauser.
    We use to find thousands of thousands of 8 Breda ammo and you can do nothing with it, not even save the bullets to reload other more common ctges.
    Just the blue tip ones (incendiary) are interesting because if you save the compound you can make wonderfull incendiary ctges, even in 22LR
  3. An interesting thing about Italian MGs is the fact the barrels are inside and outside chromed (or nickel) plated (or perhaps in the rear)
    When you find old MG in the fields, the barrels are new even after 60 years !!
    This is true for 8 Breda barrels and also for 6.5 Carcano Fiat (or scotti)
    JP

#6

I forgot to say that the first year of production is 1935 (plain base)


#7

This is the most complete and well done web page about the 8 mm Breda I have ever seen.Thanks Giovanni

worldwar.it/munizioni/italia … 59rb-breda


#8

Thank you John, yes Type O errors on the web-page, I will fix it.
Best,
Dave Call


#9

[quote=“AKMS”]Nice. I did not know there were lacquered steel cased variations of this cartidge. Is it just the picture, or is this a rebated-rim case?

AKMS[/quote]

Yes, good question, it is slightly rebated, the base of the case body just above the extractor groove is .490" and the rim is …468" , good eye !
Best,
Dave Call


#10

This cartridge was used in these 20 round feed strips/trays. They are of complicated construction and the empty cases were put back into the tray by the gun feed mechanism. So the tray was ejected from the gun complete with its 20 cases - very tidy battlefield!

There is also a 7.9x57mm version of this gun and feed tray which was used by Portugal and possibly others.

gravelbelly


#11

Interesting 1935, my references read for the 1937 & 1938 machine guns, so the 1935 plain base
are most likely prototypes, I would assume ? and I shouldn’t assume :-)
Thanks Dave


#12

[quote=“gravelbelly”]This cartridge was used in these 20 round feed strips/trays. They are of complicated construction and the empty cases were put back into the tray by the gun feed mechanism. So the tray was ejected from the gun complete with its 20 cases - very tidy battlefield!

There is also a 7.9x57mm version of this gun and feed tray which was used by Portugal and possibly others.

gravelbelly[/quote]

Wonderful information and picture, looks like the same Idea the Japanese used on thier Type 92 “Heavy” Machine gun for the 7.7 semi-rimless cartridge, introduced in 1932.
If possible I would like to put the picture on our web-site page with your information, please let me know and if you can e-mail me a picture at hurdcall@yahoo.com,
thank you for the great input!
Dave Call


#13

Dave: The Hotchkiss feed strip used with the Japanese type 92 HMG predates the Breda type by decades. The Breda goes the Hotchkiss one better in that the fired brass is reinserted in the loader, whereas the Hotchkiss doesn’t. I think the 1935 date cartridges were intended for use in the Fiat Revelli 1935 HMG, an updated version of the 6.5 m/m weapon used in the Great War. JG


#14

You have also links for this ctge
jp


#15

Hello Jean-Pierre,

I have not yet seen any MG links or a belt for the 8x59 RBmm cartridge, are they available? Do you have any pictures or drawings of these links?

gravelbelly


#16

[quote=“A Call to Arms”]
Wonderful information and picture, looks like the same Idea the Japanese used on thier Type 92 “Heavy” Machine gun for the 7.7 semi-rimless cartridge, introduced in 1932.
If possible I would like to put the picture on our web-site page with your information, please let me know and if you can e-mail me a picture at hurdcall@yahoo.com,
thank you for the great input!
Dave Call[/quote]

Dave,

You are welcome to use the pictures and any other info that I have on your website. I will e-mail the photos to you.

gravelbelly


#17

Did Italy ever produce any rifles in this calibre for use by machine gun crews? Sweden did this with the 8x63 and Holland did it with the 7.92x57R. There are most likely others as well.

I quite like this calibre, but they are hard to find in the UK. I only have one example (Brass case, non magnetic CN FMJ bullet with neck crimps, h/d BPD 37). I doubt these wer ever imported into the UK in any quantity, as there is nothing to fire them with. My round came from the USA. I have never seen any tracer, AP or incendiary loads in the UK, only a couple of ball. What sort of quantities of these were imported into the USA? Obviously it would have a very small potential market of collectors only.


#18

According to the worldwar web site a no-confirmed run of 8 x 59 breda ammo was also made by Kynoch.

No italian rifles were ever chambered for this round
I don’t think early breda ammo with plain base were prototypes,they are uncommon because they had been produced for a short time


#19


#20

I guess this is a good time to ask about an 8mm Breda round I have.

AP(?), cncs bullet, brass case, copper primer. The headstamp is a simple “K” at 12:00. I was told that it was reportedly found in Spain, possible a Kynoch contract for Spain.

Any thoughts?

I actually posted a pic of it here before:

iaaforum.org/forum2/viewtopic.ph … ight=breda