8x64mm?


#1

I have found a 8X64mm round that I am not sure on. Seems to have segmented crimp and neck annealing. Totally Magnetic bullet, with no deviation in magnetism. Medium Green primer annulus with three stab crimp. Headstamp to me is typical Czech.

Bullet diameter is 0.319in = 8.1026mm
Case length is 2.516in = 63.906mm
Base diameter is 0.467in = 11.862mm
Rim diameter is 0.468in = 11.887mm
Total length is 3.313in = 84.150mm




#2

This cartridge is called an 8x64 Czech Sniper.

Here is a google translation from the Spanish site municion.org (I have edited it slightly to remove translation errors).

http://www.municion.org/7_92x64/7_92x64.htm

[quote]The long name that has been attributed to this cartridge provides almost all the information we have about it.

Apparently this information was published in the newsletter Czech cartridge of 02/1991 but we do not know more. It is an experimental sniper cartidge based on the 8x64S Brenneke (DWM 558) used for hunting in Central Europe since its design in 1912.

The label that runs this cartridge is classified as cryptic and seems at first was irregular for export to Israel between 1949 and 1952.
[/quote]


#3

Falcon, thanks. I was thinking Israel as a destination as it has the Star of David on the headstamp.

Joe


#4

Joe - that star doesn’t represent the “Star of David.” It is the normal German-Style Czech designator for a brass case used during the time of this round. A steel case would have had a “+” mark showing it to be steel.


#5

John, I understand that it represents a brass case, however you don’t think it is significant? Most brass designation is with a 5 pointed star or an asterisk. I feel most of the Czech brass cases marked in this manner went to Israel. That was the point I was trying to signify.

Joe


#6

This is an 10 g FMJ loading made by Považská Bystríca for the Brno ZG-47 Sn rifle which was chambered for the 8x64S Brenneke. It is not “based on the 8x64S Brenneke” because it is actually not a different “caliber” or “case type”, just a different load with an specific purpose. The name “7.92x64 Czechoslovakian Sniper Experimental” surely sounds more interesting to collectors who are looking for new "calibers"and not just variations.


#7

Joe - no, I don’t think it is significant to being made for Israel. Again, it is a standard mark whether 5 point, six point or 8 point. I have seen German loads with other than five-point stars as well. I was a Special Police Officer for a couple of years, and our badge was a six-pointed star - this is not a symbol that is unique to Israel or to the Jewish religion. It is almost obscene to make this comparison, and I apologize for it but it is the best example I can use. The Swastika is identified with the German Third Reich, but it is a symbol that has been used by cultures throughout the world, for hundreds and hundreds of years, including even the “Native American.” It has been used as well on the headstamps of some Chinese Ammunition. The six-pointed star is the same, as to its various uses throughout history.


#8

“I feel most of the Czech brass cases marked in this manner went to Israel.”

Germans, Czechs, Egyptians, and Israelis all used this Czech headstamped ammo. There is no Jewish or Israeli significance to its use.


#9

I have seen Belgian .22 L.R. and Waffenwerke Bruenn, Bystrica, Czechoslovakia also use this on WWII 7,92x57 so I suppose I am convinced. The web link posted that I read made me think of a Jewish connection. In fact now that I recall I have also seen it on Mexican 7,5X57 Mauser. I do not believe however I have ever seen more than a six point asterisk. Thanks for getting me thinking guys.


#10

Fede,
I ruled out 8x64mm S Brenneke early on before posting as the round I have is dimensionally different. Bullet is only a .319" apposed to a .323" and the case is slightly shorter. Also the base and rim are slightly smaller on what I have so I was thinking different cartridge. Does the “S” not stand for .323"? Maybe this is a slightly different variant with a I or J diameter bullet.


#11

Joe, the actual bullet diameter is 8.22 mm (.323"). As in most cases when measuring a loaded cartridge, what we obtain is the maximum appreciable bullet diameter, which could be deceiving. The case lenght of various specimens of this cartridge range between 63.70 and 63.89 mm (2.507-2.515") which is the same variation you can find in a 8x64S Brenneke.


#12

Fede,

So you are suggesting a steeped bullet. Well the outside neck measures .350", so I suppose it could be. I am reading and article here (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/8%C3%9764mm_S) that claims there is an I or .318 version. What do you make of that suggestion?

Joe


#13

Joe, the bullet is not stepped but just a normal spitzer bullet, the difference with the actual diameter is caused because of the seating depth and/or crimpring method used. Just as an example, you may want to try measuring an assortment of German 7,9 mm Kurz cartridges and you would obtain a bullet diameter sometimes as low as 8.04 mm (.316").

The neck diameter of the 8 x 64 Brenneke (.318") is about 8.63-8.76 mm (.339-.344").


#14

Fede, it seems I have a 8x64S Brenneke sniper loading. I measured my German 7,9 mm Kurz cartridges of which I only have around 40 and I get measurements from .321" - .316". The .316" round is a Tombak round headstamped aux - St 11 45

Joe