8x72R Sauer case made from a .30-06


#1

Here’s a cartridge I just uncovered in my reject bucket that is quite interesting. Someone went to a lot of effort, and did a superb job, of fashioning a 8 x 72R Sauer case from a Lake City .30-06 case. I’m surprised that the case could be stretched to the extent needed.


#2

Guy

I’d take good hard look at that cartridge before assuming it is a stretched '06. Look at the extractor groove. It does not appear to be the same as a groove on the LC '06. I’m wondering if it is possibly a 2-piece case with the solid head of an '06 soldered or glued to a brass body from another cartridge. For what purpose? I don’t know.

No primer crimp either.

Another possibility is that it started as a a draw piece before it was trimmed, an extended length blank, or something along those lines.

I’d be interested in what you learn.

Ray


#3

Ray, I had considered that it might have been an untrimmed draw piece, but it does have a portion of the original primer crimp remaining - it is off center and visible on the ‘L C’ side of the head in the picture. As it had a primer crimp, it must have been a finished case. Also, would the headstamp have been applied prior to trimming and necking the case?

I believe the extractor groove is different only because the base of the case has been reduced in diameter, probably on a lathe, to .425" to produce a rim. There is no evidence of a seam where the .30-06 head has been joined to the body.


#4

If one reads George C Nonte’s Book, “Home Guide to Cartridge Conversions”
(1967, Stackpole Books,USA), he describes in great detail how to “re-draw” a .30/06 case to the length and idameted required to make a 8x72R case.

I will not go into the rather complicated proces, but it lengthens the case, and subsequent “head sizing” will reduce the head diameter, changing the profile of the extractor groove as seen in the Photos.
No lathe work is involved, except maybe to even out the groove profile, and bevel the rim, and thinning it from the front.
Reducing a .470 case to .425 is impossible without cutting through the case wall, so a lot of head swaging is involved.

Sometimes in a question, despite the ban on Handloading data, some mechanics of Case making have to be explained.

regards, Doc AV
AV Ballistics.


#5

As a reloader of 44 years, I would not consider any of the postings to this thread so far as “reloading information” in the sense of liability, as none discuss powder charges, bullet seating depth, headspacing, etc., as they should not. How cases are made, or changed from one caliber to another in the case of wildcats or factory experimentation, I would consider within the legitimate realm of cartridge collector information. Just my opinion.


#6

As an Admin. on this Forum, I agree with John. As long as “Re-loading” information is not discussed, but only “Re-forming”, I feel that is legimate discussion. The prohibation on “Re-Loading” is strickly a liability issue. If someone recommended a specific powder charge or type for shooting purposes and it was posted on the Forum, we could, conceivable be held responsible for distributiong information that led to damage to a person on gun.


#7

Wow! Who would have thunk that there was enough brass in an '06 case to stretch it out that far. It just goes to show how desperate guys were back in the post-war years. I know. I was one of them. Nowadays with outfits like BELL and Bertram making “basic” cases in every configuration imaginable guys like Nonte would be out of a job.

In my wildcat collection I have several of the Ackley Belted Express cartridges that were made by swaging down an '06 case to form a belt and it took a lot of muscle to do that. I can imagine the leverage needed to swage the entire solid head.

Ray


#8

What I found most surprising regarding the cartridge in the picture is what a great job was done in making the conversion. The case is absolutely flawless - no dings, ripples or any indication whatsoever of imperfections in the surface. And, it mikes out at exactly 72mm. Had I been doing the work, I probably would have given up well short of that goal - ‘that looks about right’.


#9

To further clarify Nonte’s method, it required two dies (actually a die and a ram) which effectively “pinches” the walls of the case between interfering diameters, and then Pushes the base downwards, effectively “stretching” the brass between the head and the “interference fit”; a 63mm 30/06case ( blown out cylindrical, by the use of another Nonte method ( an old Krag receiver, a bored out barrel, and a “fireform load” of Powder and Oatmeal); the cylindrical case is then annealed, pushed into the first die ( as in the illustrations in HGCC book), the two diameter punch inserted, and the assembly pressed down using a Hydraulic or screw press. Nonte reported using this system for stretching 45/70 cases up to 45/100, .348 to 50/110, and of course a whole slew of "Drilling "Cartridges such as the Sauer rounds, and also some of the Austrian Collath rounds, which are of similar lengths ( 72-82mm).

The combination of stretch and reduction of Case diameter, also makes the final "head swage ( again a special “Ring” die and Hydraulic/Screw press, easier and brings the case to final diameter. A clean-up lathe work of thinning the rim and clearing the extractor groove of “Flowing Brass” , with a final trim to length, makes the finished case, as seen.

Regards, Doc AV
AV Ballistics