9.3 x 36 sporting rifle cartridge?


#1

In Rifle magazine number 140 of 1992 an early Haenel-made semi-auto sporting rifle was described and discussed at some length. The author’s conclusions about the rifle were wrong more often than not, but he did describe some of the barrel proof markings and also included a drawing of a chamber cast of the rifle. The barrel markings indicated it was gaged at the time of proof as accepting a 108.49 gage, meaning the rifled barrel had accepted a .350 in. cylindrical gage and had not taken one of .360 in.

Markings also indicated it had been proofed with 1.5 grams of rifle flake powder and the bullet was steel jacketed. The chamber cast indicated a case length of 1.437 in. and a head of .456 in. The case was necked and resembled a shortened .35 Remington; in fact the head size is the same as Remington cartridge. Since the rifle was proofed in Germany (and no later than about 1911, considering that the bore size was stated in the English gage system) with the chamber now seen the proof house must have had access to ammunition proper for the rifle. What was this rifle intended to fire? Jack


#2

This sound incredibly similar to the .35 Indiana wildcat, which was just a short .35 Remington. Nothing is ever new in wildcatting, is it?


#3

Firstly, sounds like a “9mmFN” ( aka .35Rem Auto), cartridge for the FN made European version fof John Browning’s Model 8 Rifle.

The German Proof marking. It is not the Charge weight that is mentioned in the St.m.G. (Stahl Mantel Geschoss= Steel Jacketed Bullet) but the Bullet weight. Thus your reading should be 15 Grams (not 1,5 grams) Ie ,231.45 grains, which is just right for a “9mm” Rifle Bullet.

The Barrel dimensions (Lands/Bore of .350 (8,8mm) is correct for a “9-9,3” Bullet Diameter (.354"-.366").

As to Cartridge Length, a chamber cast is easy IF the case is rimmed (ie, by overflowing the casting, into the Breech face of the Barrel, one can add up the Free body length plus the depth of the rim recess in the barrel(if there is one).

For rimless cases, one must allow for the space between the Bolt Face and the Back of the barrel (unless it is one of those “completely enclosed Head Designs” (like an Arisaka, but it is semi-rimmed in any case, so there is no Head protrusion. This could account for the “shorter length of the case (so called.)”.

I have not read the article concerned, but I am a subscriber to both “Rifle” and “Handloader” ( Wolfe Publishing) and I do have some Bound volumes of the earlier Editions. I will have to check whether I have it or must “back number” it, or Get the CD.

Since it was mentioned that the Author of the article made several errors, this may be another one or two. One must have a thorough knowledge of German Proofing systems and eras before making such statements. I have been caught out often enough in the Military field for NOT RESEARCHING ENOUGH.

MY Opinion, for what it is worth, is that the rifle was originally Chambered for 9mm FN (aka .35 Remington Auto, the most common Auto rifle cartridge available in Europe to Hunters etc before WW I (along with the 6,35 (.25 Rem Auto) the 7,6 (.30 Rem Auto) and the 8mm (.32 Rem Auto) which were distributed for Remington by FN (FN seems to have only made the “9mmFN” under their Patent Arrangements with JMB.).

Too bad that this rifle-Cartridge combination was not further developed in WWI…would have made an excellent" Sturm- Gewehr" for Trench Raids ( the Winchester Autos and Remington Autos, especially the .351/35 and .401) were used by Balloonists and early Pilots/Observers; after reliable MGs were adopted for air use, they were reverted to “Train” use by the French (Supply columns).

Ribeyrolle ( of the firm of Gladiator–CSRG) did develop a .351 Win case necked down to 8mm Balle D, and developed a Light “Fusil-Mitraillieur d’Assaut”; but the end of the war terminated all work on this interesting cartridge and gun.

Doc AV

Back before WW I, there were not US Modern-Style Wildcatters, even with German cartridges, either in the Continent or in the USA. Wildcatting came ito its own in the Late 1920s, with the well known cartridge and rifle designers, and of course became more commonplace after WW II. I will have to google “.35 Indiana” to find out what exactly it is.

Addendum: Researched Municion.org, and found “9x48” Browning aka .35 Remington. Case design shows a 12mm difference in Purported Chamber casting measurements (36mm) from that of the 9x48 (actually 48.6…also called the 9x49).
.35 Indiana : Indiana Legal length cartridge of 1.800" Case length for deer use…48mm is 1.890 inches, and 1.800 inches is 45,7 mm case length, and 36mm is 1.42 inches.
So therefore, since only the ammo has to have the neck shortened (not the shoulder moved) and only by about 3mm (less than 1/8") I think the Measurement of the casting was “stuffed up” (SNAFU).
The Haenel Rifle was definitely in .35 Rem (aka 9x48 Browning Brevette Depose’ aka 9mmFN).

Doc AV


#4

Doc: The charge weight of 1.5 g (about 22 gr.) is correct; in German proofing under the 1891 law down until about 1912 the weight and type of propellant was specified, along with the type of bullet in the proof cartridge. After that date as long as the 1891 proof law was in effect the weight of the bullet and its type was indicated on the arm. The switch from weight of charge to weight of bullet is one way of identifying early and late proofing.

The article did include a rendering of the chamber cast and the case length, for the reasons you mention, is an approximation (but pretty close). The name Haenel isn’t found on the rifle, and the author doesn’t attribute the manufacture of to that firm, but various markings found on the barrel which are also rendered in the article strongly point to Haenel as the manufacturer of at least the barrel. Jack