9,3x57R (360 and Mauser)


#1

I have tried to collect data on these cartridges before, as I happen to have a single shot rifle with caliber 9,3x57R-360, with Vienna BP proof marks from 1896, and a later nitro re-proof, between 1933 and 1945.

  1. For making new 9,3x57R 360 cartridges, I was looking for period loading data or ballistical figures (working pressure or v0 would already have been helpful), but found nothing.
    (There are some relatively new articles explaining the different case shapes (e.g. E and D) and giving some loading prescripts, either with black powder which I did not want or with some US nitro powders which I did not have, and no pressure data either).
    It is not listed in the 1940 RWS handbook.
    My conclusion is the cartridge was obsolete before the publication of ballistical data became customary, such as in the RWS handbook.
    I have solved the issue by comparing available data for the 9,3x72R, calculations with the ballistic program QuickLoad, and careful testing and velocity recording.

That rifle is now shooting good enough to take it hunting.
My loads use shortened 9,3x72R cases, 193 grain RWS jacketed bullets or H&N swaged lead, powders are Rottweil R901 or SR4759.
These work well, but still I’d be curious about original ballistic data…

  1. During my search, I ran into plenty data for the rimless 9,3x57 Mauser which was mainly used in Scandinavia.
    (German hunters used the 9x57 or 9x57R, plenty of guns and data for these).
    But only one mention of a rimmed 9,3 mm version.
    A friend has an Ernst Steigleder catalog from the 1920s which lists:
    "Kal. 9,3x57, ohne und mit Rand…"
    That might well have been a printing error, we found no other reference.

But no I see my Dad found a cartridge!
Here it is next to a rimless 9,3x57.
Headstamp H.UTENDOERFFER NÜRNBERG
Bullet diameter 9,29 mm

Is there any more knowledge ?
fuhrmann


#2

The 9,3 x 57R was simply a rimmed version of the 9.3 x 57 Mauser ( itself a necked up version of the 9 x 57 Mauser).
I would not call it 9.3 x 57R 360, since this name ID the 57 mm longer version of the 360 Express cartridge ( both English and German variations). The 9,3 x 57 R 360 has smaller rim/base diameter than the 9,3 x 57R Mauser and has a cylindrical case.

9,3 x 57R 360 cartridges are not scarce, but the 9,3 x 57R Mauser is pretty rare


#3

[quote=“Pivi”]The 9,3 x 57R was simply a rimmed version of the 9.3 x 57 Mauser ( itself a necked up version of the 9 x 57 Mauser).
I would not call it 9.3 x 57R 360, since this name ID the 57 mm longer version of the 360 Express cartridge ( both English and German variations). The 9,3 x 57 R 360 has smaller rim/base diameter than the 9,3 x 57R Mauser and has a cylindrical case.

9,3 x 57R 360 cartridges are not scarce, but the 9,3 x 57R Mauser is pretty rare[/quote]
I think you mention the 360 NE 2 1/4. The Uttendorfer cases were headstamped with N and 360-9,3x57 E. Case is listed in DWM Catalog under number 77 E. Ballistics may be similar to 9,3x72R.


#4

Yes, that is the metric name for the 360 Express 2 1/4". “E” if British standard or “D” if german standard


#5

Fuhrmann, the 9.3x57R is a very rare cartridge and the earliest reference seems to be a DWM drawing from 1906 (would be No. 300C), and in the case book this caliber was assigned with number 491C which is titled “Pürschbüchse Kal. 9,3 mm”. It was only listed in the 1908 unpublished supplement for the 1904 catalog.

Later, it was listed in the RWS 1924 catalog (don’t have the one from 1923) until the export catalog from 1932, which indicates that this is “only available while stocks last”. The drawing for this case type is no. 254 which is titled “M88/57/9,3 mit Rand” and dated February 12, 1924.

For what is worth, this caliber was listed for years by Quality Cartridge although I don’t know if any cases were actually produced.

Can you post a picture of the headstamp?


#6

Gentlemen, thanks for your information!
Excuse me, my first posting was not very clear - let me explain:

I know very well that the 9,3x57R-360 and the 9,3x57R Mauser are entirely different cartridges.
Maybe I should not have mentioned both in the same post, to avoid confusion.

On 9,3x57R-360:
I have studied this because I have a rifle that needed ammunition.
There is an article in DWJ 4/1994 by Helmut Eller, explaining the difference between cases 360D (deutsche Form) and 360E (englische Form) and also showing the British .360 Express loads, with copies from Utendoerffer, Eley and Kynoch catalogs.
The 360E form has a case with straight taper, I have some of the mentioned Utendoerffer cases with headstamp N and 360-9,3x57E. These do not chamber completely in my rifle, the case binds “halfway in”". Same with a cartridge B.STAHL 360E
The 360D is slightly concave, so has a wee bit reduced waist. This is only visible when holding a ruler against the case.
I have cartridges with headstamp * H * 360-9,3x57 (Hirtenberg?), these chamber. My rifle obviously is for 360D.
Further there may be small differences in rim diameter. Also bullet diameter must be checked - Germans liked 9,3 mm or .364 to 366, while the British used .357 to .360.

I do not know about case form and dimensions of the British .360 2 1/4 but this was loaded to several levels in power, so I see different cartridges here, from the original .360 Coiled Express with 42 grains BP to the .360 Nitro Express with 30 grains smokeless, 300 grs bullet.

Regarding “9,3x72R ballistics”: before WW II, there were also loads ranging from blackpowder to stout nitro load. Good details for three 9,3x72R loads are listed in the 1940 RWS handbook: powder type and load, bullet weight, velocity, pressure etc.

My question is: are such data known for 9,3x57R-360 ?

On 9,3x57R or “M88/57/9,3 mit Rand”

Fede, thanks, this is interesting information.
What is Quality Cartridge?
here is the picture, left 9,3x57, right 9,3x57R: