9 mm Eley Pinfire?


#1

Picked this up at the weekend;

Now all the raised head stamp cartridges I have (Pinfires) the size seems to be the same way up as the normal printing.

Which would seem to be different with this one, anybody else come across this?

With and without the flash, now I read that as a “6” but the case measures 10.64 mm diameter just below the rim/flange!

Or is it an “8” ?

Mike.


Unknow pinfire cartridge
#2

I believe it’s an 8, for 8 gauge. Nice cartridge.
http://www.gunauction.com/buy/8474098

-Dave

EDIT: Added link…


#3

Hi Mike.
Great find!!
I Did some searching in my books but didn’t find any info about it.

Good luck with it.

Regards rené


#4

looks a .360 ? as I think I see an “O” on the right.


#5

Mike, I agree with Pete, it looks like a “Spherical Ball” loading of the .360 pinfire and the case length would be about 36 mm. I believe that this is an Eley factory loading, but I have never seen a box in this caliber, only the one that was made for the same loading in .410 pinfire. Regards, Fede.


#6

I’ve not seen a box either, but have it in three different lengths by Eley (one NPE & two with the ball seated at different lengths and the two shells having different OAL), and a unheadstamped NPE variation, which I think is British, but don’t know for sure, all with green paper. But the best one is a raised Eley Bros. London 10.5 with brown paper and a pointed bullet.

The loaded with a round ball is somewhat common in the C.F. load as I understand they were popular as garden guns.


#7

Very nice cartridge Mike.
Could it be a “letter” code for year of production?
I have seen this on other Eley cartridges, but never a complete translation of letter codes.
Lars


#8

Good call Pete/Fede, now you have sent me down the correct road I can make out the 3 and the 0.

Couldn’t see them for looking before.

I think I am safe to class it as an obsolete calibre and stick it in the collection.

Pete, you mention a 10.5, I have checked my 10.5 and it is the same size (within a couple of thou) as the .360! Now are these for pistols or are they for shot guns. I have only ever seen .360 shot guns and cartridges and boxes labelled as such?

Thanks all,
Mike.


#9

Here is a headstamp of a 360 PF


#10

Yes, that is much easier to see than the one I picked up.

Thanks,
Mike.


#11

Hi Mike
My thoughts are due to the OA length of these two shown which for the green is 1.772", these would be for a either rifle or shot gun as I think your shorter one would also. It being loaded with a round ball, and with a longer than typical pistol case length and pin length.

I haven’t seen enough garden guns to know about the numbers showing rifling.

This brown case I would think was for a rifled gun due to the bullet shape, and the metric designation would be for the Continental market plus the brown case being the lowest quality that would allow for quantity export/ import. Perhaps to Belgium as I would think a lot of cheap guns were being manufactured there for the European market. Again just a guess on my part.



#12

Hi Pete,

Had quite a few garden guns (still have one, a WWII period Anschutz one, bolt action) and seen a lot of pistols and guns as a nipper but never seen or had one with rifling in it.

Just measured the case lengths of that cartridge;
Head is 0.265"
Case is 1.245"
over all is 1.312"

Thanks for the pictures, very nice.


#13

10.5 and 360 are not the same ctges
Dimensions are different

The continental traduction would be 9 mm and not 10.5 mm
(and in fact they are not even exactly the same gauge)

jp


#14

The two I show diameters are:
green
rim .451", .417" head, & .405" mouth
brown
rim .450", .4175" head & .423" mouth & .410" bullet dia.

So other than the bullet being apparently too big these would surely interchange.

The swelling at the mouth can be seen in the photo.

Mike interesting you’ve not seen a rifled garden gun. Perhaps this with the bullet is a stuffer? or ? as it is bigger than the head.


#15

Here are some more:


#16

Aaron’s 10.5 looks exactly like mine, so perhaps it is correct.


#17

Pete, I was wondering the same thing but as Aaron has added some .410 into the pictures I have just been and pulled out the bits and pieces I have in small bore sizes.
I shall have to do some pictures as I have some weird head stamps on a couple.

1). Is a .410 Eley Bros London on the case but it has just a large raised “l” in the centre of the case.

2). Is a another .410 looks like and Eley case (with a very short head) but I can’t make out the head stamp apart from a 12 in the centre and some odd letters.

Thanks for the additional photo’s Aaron.

Mike.


#18

1)the main difference between the 360 and the continental 10.5 is the inside tube diameter (9.10 for 360 versus 9.60 for 10.5)
In both cases too small to fit a 410 (10.40) bullet

2)Have you the rim thickness of your 10.5 ?

  1. If we talk now about a 410 eley it is also smaller to fit a 410 bullet (inside diameter being 10.15 versus a 410 bullet (10.30 to 10.50)

JP


#19

Pictures as Promised, as per No 1 and No 2;

Number 1

And
Number 2

Cheers,
Mike.


#20

Hi Mike
Here is your number one which is otherwise same as mine - black stripe & bullet but not even a tiny bit of case print. Same prominent “I”

Your number to looks like it has Bruxelles at 600h .
Be nice to see what the rest of it looks like.

Also 12mm is a .410. Found marked like that on any number of boxes.