9 para Tool?


#1

It is a steel 9 para, but with a big hole in the base.
What is it ? And value please.
Thanks
JP


#2

BTT


#3

JP, Just worked my way down to this one. I think this is probably a Finnish dummy, but I’m in Dayton and my collection is home in Atlanta so I working out of an aged memory. These are not greatly rare, but a nice item. My guess is the value is 25-40 ($s in the US, Euros in Europe).

When I get home I’ll check and see if this is Finnish. I have a slight memory that someone else may have made a similar dummy.

If I come up with a different answer, I’ll update this post.

Cheers, Lew


#4

Lew and J-P: I associate this cartridge with Sweden. The first one I received was acquired for me at the Carl Gustav Factory, where they were used by workmen for various purposes. It is stamped the the Crown over the letter “C”, the cipher of the Carl Gustavs Stads factory. I later acquired an almost identical one without any marks on it, also out of Sweden. It has a very slight less beveled rim, and not so heavily beveled inside the mouth of the hole. My third variation, which I have attributed to Sweden but could be from somewhere else, has no markings, an extractor groove and bevel identical to the others, but the hole in the head of the cartridge is a little smaller (still large, but smaller than the known Swedish ones).

The one J-P pictures is the version with the larger hole in the head of the cartridge, appears identical in all respects to the one I have with the cipher on it, and it is my opinion it is Swedish. The Third variation I mention above could be Finnish I suppose, although it has the same “look” as my other two. I acquired it unidentified at a St. Louis show.

Considering that these are tool dummies meant for use at factory and armory level, it would seem, it is surprising that they are somewhat common.


#5

[quote=“JohnMoss”]
Considering that these are tool dummies meant for use at factory and armory level, it would seem, it is surprising that they are somewhat common.[/quote]

John,
Do you say that because you think if I have a ctge it means it is common??
JP


#6

John, I was pretty sure that I have a Swedish marked version of this round and an unmarked one from Sweden (perhaps I got it-or both from you). Problem was, I couldn’t remember if they were identical to the photo. The Finnish one I have came to me out of Finland from a person who had some access who told me it was Finnish. Given what it is, who knows. The Finns could have bought them from Sweden or the Swedes may have bought the unmarked ones from Finland!!!

Thanks for confirming my failing memory on the Swedish rounds!

Cheers, Lew


#7

Jean-Pierre, my friend, I think you are becoming paranoid. No, I did not say that the steel dummy rounds in question are fairly common simply because you have it; I said it because I believe it to be true. Lew Curtis said the same thing. He used the term “not greatly rare” and I said “they are somewhat common.”

This is why I never answer a question about value - it seems if people don’t hear what they want to hear, offense is taken.

I have three variations of what appears to be basically the same cartirdge in my collection, and have had a couple in my duplicates over the years, as well as having been offered them and turned them down. Since I have this round in my own collection, I cetainly, as they say, “have no horse in this race.” That is, it is not a matter of financial interest for me or any interest in trying to obtain your cartridge at a cheap price, since I already have one and don’t want yours. To me, a rare cartridge (“rare” along with “experimental” are the two most over-used words in the English language when it comes to describing collector cartridges, in my opinion) is one that is seen in few collections and almost never appears for sale or trade. If it doesn’t fall into that category, in my opinion, and my opinion is all that I have to offer, it is not rare. Uncommon perhaps, but not rare.

I do not gratuitously insult friends, and I hope I can call you my friend after so many years of association we have had. However, I do call things as I see them. If I am wrong, I am wrong. Lord knows I often am. But any opinion I express on any subject is what I truthfully believe at the time.


#8

[quote=“JohnMoss”]Jean-Pierre, my friend, I think you are becoming paranoid. No, I did not say that the steel dummy rounds in question are fairly common simply because you have it; I said it because I believe it to be true. Lew Curtis said the same thing. He used the term “not greatly rare” and I said “they are somewhat common.”

.[/quote]

Lol John !
I was teasing you gently.
It is a shame I don’t see you this year in St Louis, because I very much appreciate you.
If all the people could be as nice as you …!
JP


#9

Thank you Jean-Pierre. I guess I am getting old and cranky, and not so ready to understand humor. It is certainly o.k. to tease me - there is much about me to tease (No, I am not taliing about my physical size! Pass me another piece of cake please!)

Both George Kass and I were very disappointed that you will not be at St. Louis. We were talking about it in Las Vegas, in that George must drive to the show alone, and we will miss you at dinner. I would not go this year if it was simply for cartridges, but seeing all our friends from all over is much, much more important than anything to do with the ammunition itself. The ammunition is only the common interest that bonds us. I am sure that as in the last few years, I will spend more time in the bar talking with friends than I will looking at ammunition. Not to say it isn’t a great cartridge show with plenty of nice cartridges to see and acquire! As I have gotten older though, more and more the ammunition is just an excuse for retaining the wonderful friendships I have made in the hobby over the years.

You know that if you do get over here at any time, you always have a home in the San Francisco area.


#10

hi john!
from all the old guys (bill woodin, george kass and so on) you are the only one who didn’t come to visit me !
shame on you !
a,nd furthermore despite the fact i am leaving close to the italian boarder !
meaning close to your friend roberto !!!
jp