9 x 19 MHS box


#1

The photos below show a box which I picked up at the range session of the NDIA forum last week. The ammunition, which I was told was made by Winchester, is clearly for the current US Army Modular Handgun System competition, also known as the XM17. This requires pistol manufacturers to supply both pistols and ammunition for testing (no calibre specified, but must include both ball and expanding). One of the MHS candidates was on the range, the M17 by FN.

Sadly, all the ammo had been fired off by the time I realised that there was anything unusual present; I probably fired some of it myself, but did not notice since the magazines were filled for us. I was told afterwards that the bullet looked odd, in that it had a shoulder immediately above the case mouth, then continued to a conventional FMJ shape of a slightly smaller diameter.

No-one seemed to know what the S in SFMJ stands for, or why the bullet is such a strange shape.

Can anyone add anything to this?


XM17 modular handgun & ammo to be used
#2

Tony, very interesting box, thanks for posting. I don’t know the meaning of “SFMJ” but I just read the MHS solicitation report and four basic ammunition types are specified:

Ball, XM1152
Special Purpose (SP), XM1153
Dummy (DDI), XM1156
Blank, XM1157

Also, they require Reference and HPT loadings of both the Ball and SP cartridges, plus Demonstration and Cutaway Models of the latter. A requirement for a suppressor is also mentioned, but I can’t find any for the corresponding cartridge.

It is worth mentioning that, although the caliber for the MHS pistol is not specified, there is a requirement for a training kit using the M1041 marking cartridge (Simunition), which is a 9 mm round. No other training kit is mentioned.

Regards,

Fede

PS: I just noticed that the previous Olin/Winchester “Q” number (Q4409) was assigned to the .40 S&W with purple case.


9x19mm & Modular Handgun Ammunition Listed in the U.S. Army Fiscal Year 2017 Budget
#3

Yes, Winchester box, “Warning” wordings, and lot number HN51 equating to 15 December 2014. Coincidently I was just looking at Winchester 9mm box with lot number KN51 which equates to 15 December 2015.


#4

Fede, the specified performance for the SP round fits the characteristics of an expanding bullet, even though the word is not specifically used.

I think that everyone expects the M17 to be in 9mm, especially if expanding bullets are to be used (a sensitive issue in terms of the Geneva Conventions, but the US has a history of going its own way in deciding what is or is not appropriate). Especially with more women in the services, who tend to have smaller hands and already have some problems with gripping the fat butt of the M9 pistol; a larger calibre would require an even fatter butt, unless they reverted to single-column mags which I can’t see happening.

dArtagnan, I’m surprised at the December 2014 date; given that the competition is currently running, that’s very early.


#5

I had no idea this family of cartridges was being developed! It is interesting that in 2014, it already had a Q number which seems to mean a contract or special order load, instead of an EO or experimental order number used for ammo submitted for test. This indicates that development is pretty far along.

Fede/Tony, Could one of you please post the URL for the MHS solicitation? Thanks!

Cheers,
Lew


#6

fbo.gov/index?s=opportunity … e&_cview=0

fbo.gov/index?id=bd9cdf5209 … b75eb566ce

fbo.gov/utils/view?id=6b270 … c3e97ee8e2

Here’s a couple of related amendment links. I have a call in to someone about the info on the box pictured, hopefully more info soon.

As for caliber, I think it’d be a long shot for anything other than 9mm Parabellum…but the Simunitions 9mm kits can be used on some .40cal platforms; depending on variations I’ve seen the kits used on 1911s (Colt built these for Simunitions Co), SIG P226, Beretta 96, and Glock 22 handguns.