9 x 19 mm para ID


#1

can you tell me more about this cartridges please.

1/

2/

3/

I thank you for your help


#2

Samourai - I was going to let someone else more knowledgeable than I answer this one, but since no answer has come yet, I will give it a try.

Your first round could be a couple of things. If the bullet tip is green paint, it is a green tracer round. SINTOX is the Dynamit headstamp for a cartridge with non-toxic properties - no airbourne lead particles. The tip of your round looks plastic to me in the picture, and to my knowledge, that would make it not the green tracer, but rather an “Aktion 3” cartridge. This projectile has a solid brass 78.6 grain (5.9 gram) bullet at V-10 of 1345 fps (410mps) with a large hollow point, but that hole formed clear thru the entire length of the bullet. Some of the bullets appear to be solid copper, but the color is close, so I am not sure. In principle, when it is fired, the hard plastic nose cap is blown off leaving a hollow point bullet to hit the target. The idea of the cap was probably two-fold. Firstly, to increase reliability of feeding in automatic and semi-automatic weapons, and secondly, to get around restrictions on hollow-point or soft-nose anti-personnel rounds. The second purpose may be denied, but everything I have heard from the “inside” says that is true.

I have three variations of this round, all with headstmap as you show it. Two are in plain brass cases like yours, differing only in one having no primer seal while the other has a red seal. The third is in Nickeled-brass case, and has the customary red primer seal.

There are a number of rounds in the Aktion series, denoted by different color plastic tips. The problem I have with positive identification of your round is that I cannot see, nor was it mentioned, and small hole in plastic at the tip of the bullet. If it is there, it is Aktion 3. If it is not, but is a plastic tip as it looks, I don’t know what it is. If it is a painted green tip, it is a green tracer.

From the ogive of the second bullet, and the use of a Remington Case, I would say that it is a Glaser Safety Slug cartridge, originally a California firm at Foster City, not far from where I live. It is now owned and operated by Cor-Bone, in Sturgis, South Dakota. It is of the type they call “Glaser Silver” which has #6 shot in the bullet jacket, sealed with a silver (looks grey) compostion material tip. The bullet weighs 80 grains (approximately 5.19 grams) and has a muzzle velocity of 1600 feet per second (roughly 488 mps).

I would like to point out that the odd-looking “symbol” before the word Luger is actually a “9” on cartridges. I don’t know why it looks like it does in your picture. the headstamp is common. Glaser used whatever new brass he could get at any time, but he seemed to prefer Remington in the later years as an independent company. Cor-Bon has their own headstmaps these days.

The last round is one of the CEPP (Controlled Effect Police Projectile) 9mm rounds from Patruunatehdas Lapua Oy, of Lapua, Finland. There are variations to this round and I cannot identfy yours with a lot more information. The rounds are currently offered, at least in the USA.

Hope this is of some help.


#3

thanks a lot John Moss this three cartridge,these three rounds are a gift from a friend.
I never saw glaser cartridge and I think glaser are write in the heastamp !!!
this cartridge are proposed for french police some years ago.

thanks John


#4

The action 3 is in use with the Dutch police since 1990 and it was selected because of a number of reasons, including increased stopping power and less overpenetration. It’s also an excellent tire popper, but not very effective against vehicle windshields. The bullet is solid copper with a small channel which leads to the green plastic tip. Problem with the design was that the tip would not get blown out consistently. I’ve seen examples of fired and retrieved rounds that still had parts of the green plastic cap attached to them.

The follow-up ‘action 4’ (yellow tip) cured that problem by introducing a different design. The cap is not blown out while shooting, but is pushed inside a cavity in the bullet upon impact.

The Dutch Police accepted the modified action 4 design as the ‘Action Effect’, again with a green plastic tip. I don’t know if it’s possible to distinguish between the Action 3 and the Action Effect on the outside, but the Action Effect was introduced at the end of 2004 and it went in use as of january, 2005. They both will remain in use at least until 2009, when a new selection round for 9x19mm police ammuntion will be started.


#5

thanks a lot for your explain.


#6

Vlim,

thank you for the additional information. I knew that the plastic tip of Aktion 3 was designed to blow out, but I had no idea that Aktion 4 was sometimes made with a green tip also. That really muddies the waters.
About the bullet being copper though, I have many examples of AKtion 3, and most have, clearly, a solid brass bullet. I believe that one of mine is copper, but the color, while having more of a copper tone to it, is very close and I am not even sure of that one.

I will have to research total weights of the AKtion 3 and Aktion 4 cartridges to see if they can be discovered that way. I don’t know if I have a green Aktion 4 in my collection or not. I have a number of the “4” with yellow tips.

I suspect that since it does not have the Dutch Police style of headstamp, though, that Samourai’s round is Aktion 3. Or, did the Dutch police ever use these rounds with the SINTOX headstamp???

Samourai - unfortunately Glaser never had their own headstamp in 9mm Para that I am aware of. The only Glaser headstamp was on .38 Special and .357 Magnum, and only then from the first half of the 1980s.


#7

John,

The data sheet said ‘solid brass alloy’, so ignore my ‘copper’ statement. I tend to use the phrase copper for all yellowy metal stuff :) (basically we don’t have a decent word for ‘brass’ over here. We call everything either red copper or yellow copper.)

The headstamp puzzled me as well. I’ll keep an eye open for similar cartridges over here. The ‘sintox’ mark is profoundly present on the Dutch boxes, though. Based on the data available I’d say that all green tip Dutch police ammo delivered after 2004 is ‘Action Effect’ and those delivered before 2004 are ‘Action 3’.

The bullet weight of the Action Effect is 95gr, that of the Action 3 is 91gr, so a weight difference (although very slight) should be present.

I weighed some yellow-tip Action 4’s and they have an average weight of 164gr, (163.5 - 164.5), the 06 Action Effect all are slightly heavier and do around 166. gr. (166 - 166.4). This is not consistent with the data sheets which give an average weight of 10.6 grams for the Action 4 and Action effect. When measuring, the Action 4 is indeed around 10.6 grams, the Action Effect more around 10.7 grams. The action 3 comes in at 10.4 grams (160gr).

These are the 2007 boxes:

And the RUAG Action Effect datasheet:


#8

Vlim - It is confusing. It seems the only action 3 rounds that i have are the Sintox headstamp and one headstamped " 9x19A3 DAG 97 ". Now, talk about stupid! I said before I was not familiar with the Action 4 having green tips, and yet I have two of them in my own collection, headstamped "A DAG SX 05 9X19AE " and " 9x19AE DAG 06-1 ". Oddly, my earliest one is headstamped " 9x19SXA4 DAG01G0805 " and has a medium blue tip.

Further, it is clear that they are doing Action 4 rounds with yellow tips in the same time period as those with green tips. My latest headstamp of an Action 4 with yellow tip is “9x19SRA4 DAG03G0813”. This whole series is quite confusing.

I looked in my RUAG catalog and found that I do not have the data sheet for the green-tipped AE rounds. Could you PM me a copy of it in full-page format?

I assume that the colored-plastic tip rounds with a silver-grey bullet are the appropriate bullet for the color tip, but are simply a lead-free version. Is that correct? I have those in my collection with more than one tip color.


#9

Action 1 massiv copper bullet, exept experementals with a brown plastic tip, blow of when fired. plastic tip with and without a hole in the bullt tip. Plastic tip only for bether feeding.
Aktion 3 massiv brass bullet changed for Dutch police requarements, action 1 expant to much , expantion of the bullet tip more then the caliber wasn’t allowed. (a good bullet desing changed as the effect of a fmj, almost none expantion,) green and brown cap are common. Cap fly away when ctg fired.
Action 4 massiv brass bullet, I’ve only seen with a yellow plastic cap. Cap stay as a part of the bullet
Action effect, almost the same as action 4 made for the Dutch police, green cap
Actiion 5 dark bleu cap, no further info of this.
Wishes, Jan


#10

Here’s a visual rundown of the ‘Action family’:


#11

Vlim - what a great job you did for us on this! The picture where you put all the type together is better than a thousand words. It makes it so easy to see exactly the differences in each one’s construction. That is the best picture I have ever seen from a standpoint of understanding the differences in the Action series.

Thank you!