9 X 21 mm ammo makers


#1

I would like to know what factories have made and still make 9 X 21 mm ammunition
I know these ones:
IMI
Fiocchi ( with brass and nickel plated primers)
Geco ( nickel plated cases)
Winchester
MFS
Hirtemberger (?)
PS ( I forgot what this headstamp stands for)


#2

Note that I’m talking about the market version of this cartridge ( also called 9 X 21 IMI) not about the earlier wildcat round made by Jager also called 9 X 21 mm and made by cutting down 9 mm steyr cases


#3

I forgot these ones:
Armscor
PMC
Prvi partizan
Sellier&bellot

And,only cases:
Starline
magtech

PS: according to me there should be different MFS and prvipartizan headstamps
due to the production period


#4

Here are the ones that I know of. I am repeating the ones Pivi mentioned to put as complete a list as possibile on one answer. They are not in any particular order. I have only lited ones in my own collection or for which I have a photo of the headstamp. No guesses or unconfirmed reports:

Isreali Military Industries (I.M.I.) - at least three cartidge variations

Geco (Dynamit A.-G., now part of RUAG), Germany - at least four cartridge variations

The Four Company (T.F.C.) Italy - snap-cap dummies only-several variations)

Giulio Fiocchi Lecco (G.F.L.), Italy - at least seven variations

Competition Proven, Pennsylvania (CP) USA - several variations

M


#5

very interesting:Thun made cases
I know an italian factory named LCM.It has loaded fiocchi made cases headstamping them on the base of the body ( actually these ones have 2 hds) and later loaded cases with its own hds on the base.I knew that these ones were fiocchi made cases but I don’t know if LCM imports cases from a foreign country now.I was searching in my fired cases big box in my attic and I found that Geco makes brass cases too ( I didn’t remember that).I found 2 types of paint on the primer:red and green.However I don’t know it that refers to the kind of load.I have also found a 9 X 21 IMI made with 4 point crimp in the primer.Maybe a reloader made this thing that there isn’t on the standard IMI rounds.
Very intersting the tanfoglio made cases,they have developed a new cartridge and a new pistol some years ago called 9 mm FAR and Lapua was involved to making ammo and cases.Tomorrow I will call them to ask if they still have some 9 X 21 cases in their facility


#6

I didn’t understand what did you write about hirtemberger cases.Sorry but I can’t understand if you have ever seen 9 X 21 cases headstamped “HP” for hirtemberger.However I have several cases so headstamped


#7

John,
COV trading should sell 9 X 21 cases for reloaders with its own headstamp.This month I will buy some samples of these cases and then show them to you.However,being COV a company that sells empty cases for hanloaders I think they are fiocchi or other companies made cases with COV hds
It is very nice that a cartridge made for italian market is so worldwide produced

I know these fiocchi versions

FMJ RN
Lead RN
Lead TC teflon covered
FMJ TC
FMC with brass primer
TOP target
TOP defence
Black mamba ( new product)
As you can see,no SP or HP bullets due to italian laws about bullets used for auto-defence
I have also some boxes of these ones if you have never seen them

Pivi


#8

Pivi - regarding Hirtenberger, what I mean is that headstamps were made for them by MFS and Povaszka Strojarne. At least the PS headstamp shows the initials “HP” and not “PS” and uses the familiar Hirtenberger headstamp format. Also MFS made a headstamp with typical Hirtenberger Stars and caliber marking, but with no factory designator at all.

Sometime, could you PM me pictures of your headstamps and cartridges? I like this caliber and thought I had a good collection, but some information I got from Europe shows that I am missing a lot of the headstamps, since it is not a popular caliber in the U.S. except with a few IPSC shooters, who load their own and now almost exclusively usde Starline brass.

Regarding the Swiss round - it is not just reported, by the way. I have it in my collection. They also made 9 x 23mm Winchester cases, and a small run of 9 x 18mm Makarov ammunition, that many do not seem aware of.

John Moss


#9

As I understand the Russian 9x21 are no subject to the original question?


#10

EOD,my friend - while the Russian 9 x 21 is very, very similar in case design to the 9 x 21 commercial rounds in question, it is not identical. Further, it is not conceptually the same. Basically, the 9 x 21 IMI, as it is sometimes called (although it is an Italian design, IMI was the first to make factory ammunition, and in the process, changed the cartridge from the design submitted to them slightly, to ease manufacturing on their already-present equipment), was designed to get around laws prohibiting possession of guns and ammunition of military caliber, in this case the 9 x 19mm Para. The .30 Court and the .45 HP were similar rounds.

The case was lengthened 2mm from 19 to 21 mm, but at the same time, the bullet was seated 2mm deeper than it would have been in 9mm Para, in essence creating the same case capacity or powder chamber, and the same overall cartride length. Thus, the cartridge is basically identical to the 9 x 19 Parabellum in all things except that due to the case length, it will not chamber in 9mm Para weaons. However, with the same cartridge OAL, it will fit the magazines of 9 x 19mm pistols, etc., making conversion of 9 x 19 caliber firearms nothing more than the matter of rechambering for the longer case.

The Russian round is intended to be used with a greater overall length, the bullet being seated proportionately to a more normal seating depth.

John Moss


#11

John, yes I am aware of that, I just wondered if it would be of interest here.

The Russian 9x21 has also a much higher chamber pressure than the civilian ones.


#12

There should be 3 cartridges named 9 X 21 mm.

9 X 21 Wildcat:made by jager before IMI started 9 X 21 mm production.It was made from 9 steyr cases and was straight

9 X 21 IMI: this is the real cartridge of this topic.It has a conical case

9 X 21 Russian

However pictures of 9 X 21 Russian (and of the original or other wildcats with the same dimensional data)are welcome to complete the whole story of these cartridges!!!


#13


#14

Yuri, most I have seen were fom Tula (code 539) and few from TsNIITOChMASh Klimovsk / KSPZ Klimovsk Stamping Plant (code 61, so far unclear which one of the two is using the code).
Besides that as I heard there is also traffic of components inside Russia, means one manufacturer is making cases for another and is applying the code in the hs of the plant which ordered them.

Are any other Russian manufacturers known?


#15

ssf


#16

On my Brandt’s book it is described another 9 x 21 experimental round developed in Germany in 1907 that never passed the experimental stage

It is called “9 x 21 Pistole”

Pivi


#17

[quote=“JohnMoss”]Here are the ones that I know of. I am repeating the ones Pivi mentioned to put as complete a list as possibile on one answer. They are not in any particular order. I have only lited ones in my own collection or for which I have a photo of the headstamp. No guesses or unconfirmed reports:

Isreali Military Industries (I.M.I.) - at least three cartidge variations

Geco (Dynamit A.-G., now part of RUAG), Germany - at least four cartridge variations

The Four Company (T.F.C.) Italy - snap-cap dummies only-several variations)

Giulio Fiocchi Lecco (G.F.L.), Italy - at least seven variations

Competition Proven, Pennsylvania (CP) USA - several variations

M


#18

Renewing this thread,Fiocchi has recently marked some new 9 x 21 Loads for sporting purposes.They are primed with blackened primers and loaded w


#19

Pivi,

I guess you refer to the new “top target” line of Fiocchi 9mm x21 IMI ammos…I’ve seen that ammos only in the advertisings by the producer…never used and never saw such ammos…in the last two years I fired only two magazines with a P.38 pistol in a slovenian firing range , the first one against an empty 25cc Coca Cola can and second one against the head of an old cardboard dynamic shooting target…

…another type of Fiocchi ammo that I never fired is the Black mamba 100 grs 9mm x21…

from the Fiocchi line I fired these ammo types:

9mm x21 63 PRN(…short range bronze/nylon bullet…);
9mm x21 123 LTC teflon;(…the bullet has a black coating…)
9mm x21 123 FMJTC;
9mm x21 123 FMJRN “minor”(…“minor” because at the time, mid 90’s, there were here lot of dynamic shooting fans…so Fiocchi told them that with such ammo you cannot have a major PF);
9mm x21 123 LRN teflon;
9mm x21 123 FMC leadless;(…loaded with a FMJRN bullet with a second copper alloy jacket at the base and a leadless primer…)
9mm x21 115 HJSP;
9mm x21 147 JHP;
9mm x21 115 JHP.

…the original loadings released by the Fiocchi firm were the 123 LTC teflon and 123 FMJTC…the original boxes were gray coloured with the indication of the ammo tyypes and some short bars with a blue colour if there were lead bullets…and red-yellow bars(…if my memory is right…) for the FMJs…

about the czech S&B ammos I was able to find and fire such types of ammo:

9mm x21 7.5 grams FMJRN(steel jacket);
9mm x21 7.5 grams FMJRN(copper alloy jacket);
9mm x21 124 grs FMJRN(…in a cardboard box where you can see the odd drawing of a LRN ctg but the indication of FMJRN ammo inside…the bullet is similar to the latter above but a bit longer).

All the best
Andrea


#20

The spanish Guardia Civil (militarized police) purchased a large lot of 9 Parabellum from Armscorp. The cartridges were headstamped (9-P ACP 86), for Arms Corporation of the Philippines. Note that this is probably a custom made "Santa B