9 × 22mm Altay (Altai) "NEW" Cartridge For The Civilian Market In Russia

9x22mm Altay is intended for use with firearms having an oval bore barrel without rifling. The cartridge is produced by Barnaul.

Brian

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These are weapons with polygonal barrels which in Russia are considered “smooth bore” and for which it is easier to obtain a licence.
We shall see for how long this will be handled this way.

This looks like an elongated 9 mm Makarov cartridge! Thanks for posting, Brian. Does anyone know if the pistols for this cartridge are of the Makarov design? There have been many less-than-lethal cartridge case types used in refurbished Makarov Pistols, but I would think this one might be too long, overall cartridge length, to work in that pistol. Perhaps for refurbished TT33s or some totally new design handgun?

John Moss

John, the bullet shape here looks much like 9x17 (.380 ACP).

The guns are the VPO-185 and VPO-139 (Vepr-9). Both seem to exist in different calibers.

VPO-185:

VPO-139:

EOD,

So, it seems it is not a pistol cartridge at all, but rather for versions of Russian Assault Rifles and SMGs. However, while I don’t read Russian, I don’t seen any mention of any case type other than the the 9 x 19 mm on the two websites you reference. Of course, not reading the language, I may be missing something.

Regarding bullet shape, could well be like the .380 Auto in shape. My comment about an elongated “Makarov” cartridge was not a commentary on the bullet shape, however. I was that in the pictures, the case appears to be with typical Mauser/Luger/Makarov head, and also appears to be a straight sided case, which if I am correct, would amount to nothing more than an elongated 9 x 18 mm Makarov case. I understand full that my observation must be counted as nothing more than a guess, since we have no cartridge measurements for the round shown.

If you find out any further information on the cartridge, please post it here.

Thank you.

John

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John, the guns existed already before in 9x19 (and probably in blank firing calibers) and just the 9x22 caliber is new. Means they have adapted existing weapons to this new cartridge and polygonal barrel.
The entries on the guns you see in the links are older than the 9x22 cartridge.

EOD - that still doesn’t answer the question. Do you know from other literature that these firearms are also being made (or have been made) in the 9 x 22 Altay chambering? Do you know if it is only these shoulder-weapons in which this cartridge is chambered, or are their oval-bore pistols also chambered for it.

Pardon the questions. I am just trying to know how to classify this case type when I file this thread.

John

John, the link Brian has posted from the Kalashnikov magazine is naming these two guns as being now available in 9x22.

Thank you. That’s all I needed to know. My disadvantage is that I am interested in Russian ordnance, but read a total of maybe 5 words of Russian. I also haven’t a clue how to translate Russian material on the computer. So forgive me. I don’t mean to be a “doubting Thomas,” but found our years ago that when possible, it is necessary to try to get some sore of corroboration to answers when no source for the answer is quoted. We all have give what information we know sometimes, even if not verified, but the more documentation, the merrier.

Thanks for you patience, my friend.

John

John, no worries, I am the first to ask for sources and validated data and often enough do not have any.

For website translation you can use this site here. Just fill in the languages and paste the page URL and off you go (of course with all limitations a computer translation comes with).
http://free-website-translation.com/

EOD - thanks. However, a dear friend who uses this Forum just sent me an English translation of the article.

John

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http://www.barnaulpatron.ru/news/companynews/2020/08/26/110/

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"New 9mm Altay Lancaster

JSC “Barnaul Cartridge Plant” presents a new cartridge with a steel sleeve for smooth-bore sporting and hunting weapons, caliber 9x22 Altay Lancaster with a 6.1 g FMJ shell bullet, with an average speed of ≥420 m / s, an average accuracy of fire at a distance of 25 m ≤8 cm and an actual diameter of 3-5 cm.

In the fall of 2019, BPZ JSC together with Hammer Arms LLC began to carry out experimental design activities for the development, manufacture and testing of prototypes of cartridges for smooth-bore weapons of 9 mm Altay caliber .

To date, the cartridge has been certified by Barnaul Cartridge Plant JSC, and Molot Armz LLC and Molot-Oruzhie LLC are ready to produce three items in caliber 9 mm Altay :

  1. VPO-285, Molot-Oruzhie LLC based on the AKM box.

  2. VPO-289, Molot-Oruzhie LLC based on the AKM box.

  3. Sapsan - L , Molot Arms LLC based on the VSS Vintorez box.

Follow our official website for details on the start of sales of new cartridges!"

Do these have a rebated head or are my eyes playing tricks on me??