Gentlemen,
I need some information on 8mm and 9mm P.A.K. (blank) cartridges, particularly those manufactured recently by Apaci, YAZ, King, and Ozkursan.
Does anyone have basic info on these manufacturers offerings?
Can you describe or post pictures of the specific boxes or headstamps you are trying to identify? Recent Turkish blank ammunition manufacturers and their brand names is a quite complicated subject.
Unfortunately I canāt post the images in a publicly-viewable forum, but Iād be happy to share them with you if you send me an email: nic -at- jjagencies.com
No headstamps, just packaging photos.
[quote=āRogueAdventurerā]Gentlemen,
I need some information on 8mm and 9mm P.A.K. (blank) cartridges, particularly those manufactured recently by Apaci, YAZ, King, and Ozkursan.
Does anyone have basic info on these manufacturers offerings?[/quote]
Ćzkursan ammo (blanks) are sold in Germany, and I have seen YAZ in Hungary. Ćzkursan distributes them under their own Name, but also fabcricate for everybody who orders them, with whatever headstamp the customer is asking for. They sometimes also using different names on the packets, for their different Qualities. Some, with only a shotprimer in the base, are very cheaply fabricated and have no room for a headstampā¦So, whitout box, their is no clue to the original manufacturerā¦
YAZ and Ćzkursan have their own Websitesā¦ yavascalar.com.tr and ozkursan.com, the KING is maybe only a brandname for distrubution and no maker. Apaci was unknown to me up to yetā¦
Sincerely
Peter
There is also a box of āV.I.P.ā brand. I will be including the images in my forthcoming report on SAA in Syria for the Small Arms Survey, and will make the images public if possible.
Nic, thanks for the pictures. This is what I know regarding the cartridges found in those specific boxes:
Ćzkurzan 9 mm P.A.: Distributed by Ćzkursan; case made by Vicimas and loaded by Ćzkurzan. Plated steel case, battery cup primer, no headstamp.
Ćzkursan 8 mm Blank: Distributed by Ćzkursan; unknown European manufacturer (Pobjeda?). Brass case and primer, headstamp OZK 8mm.
YAS Iron 8 and 9 mm P.A.K.: Distributed by YavaÅƧalar; case made by Vicimas and loaded by?. Plated steel case, battery cup primer, no headstamp.
ApaƧi 9 mm P.A.K.: Distributed by Avrasya; unknown manufacturer. Brass case and primer, headstamp APC 9mm.
V.I.P. 9 mm P.A.K.: Distributed by Turan; labeled āMade By Turanā. Brass case, nickeled primer, headstamp VIP ā 9mm ā.
King 8 mm P.A.K.: This brand is owned by Ćifsan but I donāt have more information about its manufacturer or cartridge characteristics.
Regards,
Fede
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YAS does have headstamped rounds. I have a 9mm PAK with Y.A.S at 6 oāclock and another with Y.A.S at 12 oāclock but on a 9mm P.A Blank on the headstamp. Fede can you share the VIP headstamp? I have a copy but it is very poor.
edited for spelling
Are the rebels converting blanks into ball rounds in Syria?
Not that Iāve seen, though I certainly wouldnāt be surprised to see them try.
I have these in my collection, apparently all from Turkey:
Here are some more modern Turkish Less than lethal headstamps.
MECA
Rivo
Venus cartridges
Anatolia Cartridges
Victory Sport
YAS Bottom
Poor scan of the Turan VIP Fede was talking about
Also UMA, GOP and Walther are Umarex Germany. Not all ammunition of theirs was made in Turkey, some was made in Germany and other countries for them.
Wadie is also German and again, only some ammunition was contracted to Turkey, much was still made in Germany and under contract by an Italian company.
Sorry, absolutely not in my field of research, but who could tell us, about all this alarm or blanks, the exact meaning of āP.A.ā ???
PR
Fede tells me PAK stands for āPistole Automatische Knallā, and PA for simply āPistole Automatischeā.
Will, maybe except for the one headstamped O.Z.K. P.A.K. 9mm (Ćzkursan, Turkey), which I donāt know who made it, none of these was manufactured in Turkey.
Y.A.S. 9mm P.A. Blanc: āYASā brand by YavasƧalar; made S&B.
Walther 9mm PAK: Distributed by Walther; made by? (rimfires are made by Pobjeda and S&B).
WADIE 9 mm P.A.: Distributed by Wadie; made by Dynamit Nobel.
GEM 9 m m PA-K: Distributed by Gruppo Europeo Munizioni; made by?
UMA 9 mm P.A.Knall: Distributed by Umarex; made by?
UMA . 9 mm P.A.Knall: Distributed by Umarex; made by PS.
UMA 9 mm P.A.Knall: Distributed by Umarex; made by PS.
UAG 10x22T: Distributed and made by Pobjeda.
GOP 9mm P.A.: Distributed by Umarex (German-Russian language boxes); made by Pobjeda. There is a similar headstamp with bigger characters that is distributed by Mediterranean Cartridges (MECA).
Curtis, Umarex does not manufacture ammuniton and these are not less than lethal loads but blanks, except for the USA 9 mm Luger which is 9x19 a ball loading and not a 9x22 PAK.
MECA 9mm PAK: Distributed by Mediterranean Cartridges (Anatoliaās brand name); case made by Anatolia, Turkey.
RIVO 9mm: āRivoā brand; distributed and made by?
V N S 9mm: āVenus Pistolāsā brand (Turkey); distributed and made by?
USA 9mm LUGER: Distributed by?; case made by Anatolia, Turkey.
V.SPORT 9mm P.A.K.: āVictory Sportā brand distributed and made by Pobjeda.
9mm P.A.K. Y.A.S.: āY.A.S.ā brand by YavasƧalar; made in Europe by? (maybe RUAG, Germany).
Nic, I have never seen factory documentation indicating a correct language translation of āP.A.ā, and maybe this was done on purpose with the intention to be correctly interpreted in German (Pistole Automatische), French (Pistolet Automatique), or Italian (Pistola Automatica).
That would certainly make sense. Itās also the reason I asked you in the first place - none of the factory literature I have seen expands on either acronym.
He is right.
Sorry, it is in German.
Beim 9 mm P.A.K. (Pistole Automatik Knall) handelt es sich um ein Kaliber von Platz- und Reizstoffpatronen fĆ¼r Selbstladepistolen, insbesondere fĆ¼r Schreckschuss- oder Startpistolen
Rgds
Well, I had it in mind, but I am happy to get at least a confirmation. Thanks a lot!
PR
Actually the Venus are pyrotechnial cartridges. I have the boxes but not the actual cartridges. Correct all are blanks and I used the term less than lethal as I believe some were pyrotechinal cartridges and though not sure supposed some may be rubber ball loads. However most are stated as knall so blanks for sure. Wadie I have with the p.a headstamp in a pepper load and in a flash load. Umarex both blank and pepper loads. The Turkish ones I posted as you stated were all blanks except Venus. Venus states the maker conskunlar in very small letters on the label. Thanks again for the info Fedeā¦ your knowledge is great.
Curtis, thanks a lot for the information about the Venus cartridge, I have pictures of some of their boxes but didnāt notice the name of the distributor. The brand name registered by CoÅkunlar is āVenĆ¼sā, but all boxes I have seen donāt have a diaeresis over the āuā. Also, these are all labeled āBlank cartridgesā; do you have pictures of the box for the pyrotechnical loading?