9mm Borchardt-First 9mm Luger Cartridge


Can someone post a drawing of a 9 mm Luger chamber whit the “ring”?


I don’t understand your comment that the 9mm bottleneck Borchardt-Luger cartridge has a larger base than the 9x19mm round. The base diameter of both is identical. Rechamber would only require the chamber be opened to accept the larger diameter of the 9x19mm round forward of where the shoulder would be in a 9mm bottleneck Borchardt-Luger chamber. I think such a rechamber could have left a very slight ring in the chamber which could have confused someone looking into the chamber to believe that the chamber of 10023B had a rim. Alternatively, If this pistol was rechambered using a reamer with the step, it could have a perfectly normal ringed chamber.
Thanks Lew, my fault.
I was wrong, as I asume that the base was bigger without checking actual numbers.
Thank you very much for sharing your knolowdge.


Pivi, you can download the German patent as PDF:

Go to the German Patent and Trademark Office home page: www.dpma.de
In the top line, switch it to English.
On the left side, below E-Services, click on DepatisNet
Click on Search mode "beginners"
In the “publication number” field enter: DE237192 and click on the “Start search” button.
In the results page, click on the PDF logo.

Before downloading, I recommend to select 300 dpi. Be sure to click on downloading the full document. Otherwise the drawings will be missing.

The drawing itself is quite trivial.It shows only the principle, using a long case which is quite different from 9 mm Parabellum.

If someone knows the corresposnding US patent number, it could also be downloaded using number US…


Does the link work?:
depatisnet.dpma.de/DepatisNet/d … &xxxfull=1


EOD, no, it doesn’t work at least on my PC.
JPeelen, thanks, found the file and saw the picture

Here it is


Just found this:



here are the measurements of the 9 Borchardt of a friend of mine
hstp * DM * K
Round nose bullet
case length 17.76
bullet diameter (at case mouth) 8.96
the bullet is not straight because the diameter is decreasing (8.78 close to the rounded shape)
neck diameter 9.02
neck diameter (1 mm down the seating) 9.14
base diameter 9.85
rim diameter 9.86
groove diameter 8.75
total length 28.75

I measured 2 9 para ctges with troncared bullets
(one DWM K 5 09 and one K DWM K 480C)
they have grove diameters of 8.64 and 8.63



Many thanks JP!

Missed seeing you in September…



good morning lew, good morning gentleman

a few days ago i’m proud to have the 9mm luger-borchardt bottlenecked 9 para father in my little collection …
reading the whole post, let me say thank you to all of you, very interesting and educational.

i have read about an pre 1904 dwm katalogdraft, with was unearthed a few years ago
can anyone help, to get an copy of these documents

regards from austria … wolfganggo


For those that did not see the Photobucket pics before they got lost.

9mm prototype


Has anyone got any info on this i found in Crete last week at a abandoned Cretan village of “Kalami”


Hard to tell anything from that pic execpt that it was fired in a submachinegun (dragmarks from the fixed firing pin).
Most likely an US case because the Germans never called it a Luger but a Parabellum.


(post withdrawn by author, will be automatically deleted in 24 hours unless flagged)


and has nothing to do, with the initial Thread-Theme of Bochardt ammo



Your post has nothing to do with this thread. You have hijacked my thread.
Please re-post this as a new thread and delete this post.

Then provide a photo, or a set of photos showing the entire headstamp in the new thread. When you have done this, I will try to answer your question. I suspect I know the headstamp, but would like to see the entire headstamp before I offer an opinion.

Forensic is correct. This hijacking of threads is a real pain, and I suggest the moderators add something on this subject to the instructions on the Forum.

Muskey & Chickenthief;
Please delete your posts above and reenter on the new thread.