9mm collection cataloging help please


#1

Hi a, i just received about 800 X 9mm cartridges. 9mm very new to me, Im not sure how to go about sorting and cataloging, by make commercial- different bullet and HS? (what I want to do) By bullet type- CN, hollow point etc? The military i will sort by manufacturer and then date.

Am i thinking correctly???

Thanks,
Jonathan


#2

People usually sort in various levels - first by military vs commercial, and then by country, era, purpose, manufacturer etc… Then you get various projectile types especially on the commercial stuff, whereas the military stuff is usually FMJ, or maybe tracer or blanks. Knowing the headstamps is key to this, and aside from using the headstamp ID guide on this site for some of them, the only way to be sure is to do an image scan or some photos for whichever ones you have questions on. The ones with dates are usually always military, and the ones with brand abbreviations (WIN, R-P, JAG, or other commercial brandings) are the retail ones.


#3

Thanks DK, i have managed to sort all the commercial stuff and from each manufacturer I have added 1 of each HS and bullet type from each. Now the military HS search begins! I love this part… Did i read somewhere correctly that X is normally for experimental?

J


#4

“X” is not a common headstamp symbol in 9mm per-se, but is does appear on certain Czechoslovakian cases from the early 1950’s which were just normal ball rds (they used a lot of symbols), as well as on rare subsonic German WWII steel cased rds.


#5

As DK mentioned above there are lots of ways to sort the collection and all work, depending on your interest, and the size of the collection.

My interest is the history behind the cartridges and only collect one caliber, I sort by country and then manufacturer and then headstamp, and below that the individual loads and the dates/lots of each load. The result is that tracer rounds for example are scattered throughout my collection.

Others who are more interested in the various types of loads will sort by caliber and then the types of loads within each caliber so all tracer rounds are together and all blanks are together and all dummy rounds are together, and then these may be sorted by country or by headstamp or however you choose.

The Woodin Laboratory sorts by caliber, then by country, then by type of load (for example German truncated bullet rounds and German round nose 9x19mm are in separate drawers) then by manufacturer then by highest and lowest date.

Others may sort by Military or Commercial at the top level, but this can be difficult in 9x19mm when the same headstamp and/or load are used for both.

I have seen a collection where they are sorted by appearance, where a red tip tracer and a red tip proof round are together, regardless of headstamp or anything else.

In 9x19, headstamp and country often do not go together. For example “W-W” is usually a Winchester made cartridge, but W-W cases have been used in various countries and factories (particularly small ones) to make exotic loads, and South Africa actually manufactured W-W headstamped cases for use by special forces operating in other countries. Geco, FN and SFM, had an agreement to make 9x19mm for each other when they received an order that it wasn’t convenient to fill. I have FN ammunition made by Geco and Geco cartridges made by SFM.

Beginning in about 1930, Geco and RWS reached an agreement where RWS would make all rifle ammunition for both and Geco would make all pistol ammunition for both. Both continued to sell both rifle and pistol ammunition and list both in their catalogs so RWS was a subcontractor to Geco for rifle ammunition and Geco was a subcontractor to RWS for pistol ammunition. Both had their own headstamp on the ammunation they sold, regardless who made it. I have my Geco made RWS headstamped ammunition in the RWS part of my collection.

Bottom line!!! Think about how you want to use your collection and your interests and organize your collection accordingly. No matter what scheme you choose, it will be difficult to find a place for some cartridges. For example Leader, a German who sells 9x19mm commercial ammo has bought it form manufacturers in a number of different countries, all with an “LE” headstamp. I now put them under the Leader company with a note on who actually produced them, but originally I listed them under the actual manufacturer like GFL!

Good luck and if you have any questions, drip me a PM.

Cheers,
Lew


#6

Jonathan,

" X " is often used to denote experimental status when used as a prefix in a model designation.

As an example see the Forum discussion:

New US XM1152 and XM1153 9x19mm

Brian


#7

Thank you guys. Have so much to figure out. I think figuring out watch HS must be my main focus first.


#8

This is a steel case


#9

Jonathan,

Here are a couple of earlier Forum discussions concerning Czech 9x19mm that may be interest to you:

Brian

PS: Link to the first Forum discussion has been corrected.


#10

Hi, theses are both South African cartridges, has anyone got info on them?

GO 93
97 X 15

Thanks,

Jonathan


#11

If you have not already found this tremendous reference source on 9mm cartridges, you really need to check this out, written by one of the most advanced 9mm collectors in the world:

http://cartridgecollectors.org/documents/Introduction-to-9mm-Luger-Cartridges.pdf


#12

I agree John - I’d like to meet the author some day.


#13

The GO 93 headstamp is reportedly made by New Generation Ammunition. It is only known with the 93 date as far as I have seen. it has variously been described as an experimental (which I doubt) and as a contract for another company or country (which seems more likely to me). I don’t have enough information to even speculate who it was made for. A nice item.

The other headstamp was made by PMP in 1997. The 15 indicates the design version of the standard ball round. The “X” indicates it was not made for the military but rather for the Police.

Again a nice round. Mine also has the identical headstamp.

Cheers,
Lew


#14

Hi Lew, the P is issued to the police, they are also issued 5,56x45 with a P on the HS. I am still looking for the 5,56 HS.

I am hoping to get some next week.

J


#15

For whom were the “x” ones then?


#16

That I do not know…


#17

Sorry, I misread my note. The “X” were for the Prison Service.

Cheers,
Lew


#18

Lew, the label of the cartridge with “GO 93” headstamp identifies it as a M1A4 load made by PMP. I have seen it described in collector’s lists as being a contract for an Asian country, and some even mentions the name of “Goland” or “Galand” Ordnance, but I don’t have information about companies using any of those names.

The M1A5 load marked “X” has been attributed to the D.C.S. (Department of Correctional Services). Again, I don’t have further information confiming this indentification.

Regards,

Fede


#19

Here are the labels (from RSA bulletins):

GO 93
GO%2093

97 X 15
97%20X%2015

Regards,

Fede


#20

Great Fede! So it also occurs with a 1997 date. New information to me. Many thanks…

Cheers,
Lew