9mm Facebook make up photo


#1

I don’t follow such things on Facebook; but I assume this is someone’s artistic creation of the bullet selectively “spread” and placed in a saw-cut case.
(I see the implication that the bullet departs the gun and “spreads” as depicted and thus thought to be a very special purpose application)
NOT :)


#2

hello
the projectile is real ,not fantasy

if i remember is a geco short range


#3

understood…(I have the round) but I think as it is photo presented (maybe without a text ?) gives folks the impression it is a ultra unusual special purpose round. As such it would be a nice presentation to place in the collection drawer.


#4

IMG_0542b

IMG_0545a


#5

In my view, these rounds are “ultra unusual special purpose
rounds;” it is not just an impression. They are not rare, or even
scarce, but they were made for a fairly short period of time and
the design-method used to slow velocity for short range use is, as far as
I know, unique.

JLM


#6

Also called Aeroflap, don´t know if that was official or not.

Some info with pictures (in german):

https://wiki.waffen-online.de/index.php/Aeroflap

Regards

Stefan


#7

Stefan,
Your Geco headstamped round is probably the shortrange/Aeroflap load but II am pretty confident the two Israeli loads (IMI & SB headstamps) are not. I think you will find they are significantly heavier than the Geco load. In Israel the light blue tip is used on subsonic rounds.

Cheers,
Lew


#8

Below are the Geco short range rounds in my collection. I do not have the one pictured by BDGreen, and I missed this box at SLICS. Thanks for posting it.


Some are experimental. The third from the left has the flaps on the front. There are a lot of variations in the design.

Below are some FN experimental short range bullets that are slightly earlier than the Geco rounds. In most cases the plastic tails on are fixed in place. The truncated brass bullet with short tail has the flaps pushed mostly into the case. They are apparently pulled out by drag. The bullet on the left end has a disk that drops back into the position shown and creates drag to slow the bullet. The two bullets on the right end are similar but had a plastic driving band that apparently breaks up on firing. The disk on the back is fixed. Both had a plastic driving band but over the ~40 years I have had them, the plastic band on the one on the far right deteriorated and fell apart.

There may be other attempts to develop this concept, but I don’t recall them just now. I have never seen any of these as a loaded round!

Cheers,
Lew


#9

Hi Lew,

i´ve got one of the pictured Geco rounds here, this could be what was referred to as an Aeroflap. I´m curious about this name since i don´t know where it originated and if it´s legit.
I also have one of the 147 gr IMI (with IMI HS), never seen a similar load in a S&B case - so thanks for the info!

Regards

Stefan


#10

Stefan,
My comments were directed to the Waffen Online info, but I skimmed it too fast and thought he was referring to all three light blue bullets as Aeroflap! My mistake.

The Waffen Online is still incorrect. The SB headstamp shown is a product of IMI, not Spain. It was sold in a blue commercial Sampson box. IMI also used an SA headstamp for blue tip subsonic rounds. I have no idea why IMI used these headstamps.

By “SB” I was not referring to S&B.

I have no idea where “Aeroflap” came from. I don’t recall having heard it before in relation to these cartridges.

Cheers,
Lew


#11

My ignorance should be clear here.

I like flechettes…fascinated by .22 RF up to big boy tank APFSDS rounds…such as photos of the sabots pealing away (front to back) leaving the muzzle going down range (I grasp the concept).

With this 9 mm reduced range round is there sufficient “pressure” (back to front) to “bend” those bullet “flaps” out at 90 degrees (like the static photos might imply?)

I am ignorant…there is pressure to fire “out”…air resistance “back”…does the front propulsion pressure “win” ?

PS…do any slow motion videos exist of the bullet being fired?

(How fast/far from the muzzle do the “flaps” flap out ?)


#12

Pepper,

These were production items in Germany for perhaps 10 years or so. The flaps blow out as the projectile exits the barrel. Works just fine!

I don’t know of any videos but I do know people who have fired them. They make BIG holes in a paper target!

I do not have the technical data on effective range before they fall out of the air, or how fast the velocity drops. If anyone has this information, please post.

Cheers,
Lew


#13

Hi Lew,

my 147 gr FMJRN from IMI was bought 1999 in a box. I remember this very well as it was my first box of ammunition i could buy myself as a freshly licensed recreational shooter.
The blue tip on my IMI is much darker than the one shown in the link. All cartridges in the box looked the same, it was no variation in that particular lot i guess.
I´m really picking my head right now but can´t remember if the box was labeled IMI or Samson. I remember around 1999 / 2000 the .50 AE´s one could buy around here were labeled as Samson.
Can´t remember to have ever come across a SA HS.

Interesting stuff for sure. Thanks Pepper, for bringing this up. I wasn´t particular interested in the Aeroflap when i got it, but kept it as it was part of a convolut with other stuff i found much more to my taste.

Regards

Stefan


#14

I wonder what the effect of centrifugal force is on the flap deployment. I hadn’t even considered the effect of pressure from the pistol’s bore expanding the flaps as it passed the gun’s muzzle. Maybe it’s some of both. MBA’s .50-caliber “BMG” rockets (made from standard .50 bullet jackets) ultimately failed because the “hoop stress” caused by centrifugal force was so great the rockets disintegrated soon after leaving the muzzle.

Very interesting post, Pepper, and replies.


#15

ah…I never considered a centrifugal force effect adding to the equation

I’m just stuck on thinking these types of flaps fold out and slow things down
(fold out front to back)