9mm Helmet test loads

Info is needed on those two 9mm luger rounds with lead bullets
and no I do not believe they are reloads.Identification of the one
round would be nice too
Sherryl

Sherryl, not having the answer but why “helmet test”?

Armscor did produce 9 mm Para for a long time. My catalogs for that company end in 2010, but it includes the lead bullet load (also in .45) as do other years going back to about 2006, when I stopped searching.

That said, two things sound alarms on the cartridges you show being factory loads. I am NOT saying they are not. I do not have a lead bullet Armscor of the Philippines 9 mm in my own collection, as they were not generally offered in the US, so I can’t make comparisons. However, the catalogs consistently show a lead-bullet load with a projectile seated farther out. They are not photos, so they are open to question, of course.

Second problem is that the headstamp “9-P ACP 86” was made for Spain, in a FMJ loading. The box label is in Spanish. This ammunition proved to be of substandard quality, according to Spanish sources, so the contract was cancelled and these cartridges were dumped on the US commercial market. I don’t truthfully know if it was Armscor that sent them in, or the Spanish. All that said, it is not impossible that there was brass left over and Armscor used it up with a lead bullet loading. However, they also sold NUPE brass here in 9 mm so they could be an after market load, as well. The cartridges for Spain did not have a red primer seal.

If loaded by a careful, individual reloader, there would be nothing to tell what they were, because they would show no signs of having been a fired case.

This answer is absolutely NOT conclusive evidence of anything. Just pointing out the difficulty sometimes of recognizing or proving “factory loading” of any given cartridge, depending on many factors. It is just my thoughts on the matter.

John Moss

John Thanks for the reply its nice to find out that round is Spanish to the rest I take
your word for it,of course you are right there people that are superb in reloading
and if done by a professional outfit for sure.it is not importent it just stirred my
interest why these were having lead bullets but as you proved there is always
an answer thanks
Sherryl

Sheryl - the cartridge is manufactured by Armscor of the Philippines, but was made with that headstamp specifically for Spain.

John Moss

John
Thank you again for the additional info you know your
knowledge in detail about these things is indeed
mind blowing
Sherryl